Bunker sizes, experiences

[mikebol]

Hey gang!

We're going to be empty nesters in a few more years (hopefully!) and starting to think about the next property that we'll buy and subsequent house. We'll be looking to move further south, find some property in a wooded, rural area and establish a modest home that's unassuming but tucked back into the woods.

We're in the early stages of becoming more prepared and one of the things I would like to add to the new house is a bunker or underground storage cache that could be used as a temporary shelter in a SHTF event. I don't anticipate this being an extreme long term solution but something hidden to store\hide provisions, valuables, persons if needed. I have been looking at all of the underground bunker designs online and find them 1) expensive and 2) claustrophobic just from judging by the pictures.

Have any of you ever toured any of these round corrugated pipe units or square shipping container units? I would like your thoughts and opinions on the size and livability for short periods of "need" and what you may consider as a tolerable length of stay.

Me personally, I've been thinking about building my own shelter from a corrugated steel building like the one below:



This could be built well below ground level on a concrete pad, reinforced with wire mesh, and a poured concrete outer structure I would think. What I like about this option is 1) price and 2) the interior dimensions would be somewhat taller, wider making it feel less confined than a 10' round pipe or 8' square box. Once erected, enclosed and covered, I could build out the interior much like a traditional home but on a smaller scale with square bedrooms, a bath, and a vaulted living room\kitchen on one end.

My long term vision would be to allow the underground unit to tie into the house water source, sewer system and even have a few solar panels on the roof of the house to drive power to the bunker which would be buried nearby, within walking distance. All of this depends on logistics of this structure in relation to water\septic but I think it could be done.

Does this seem like a doable plan? So many folks build their own structures in secret so not sure if there's a better way to do this or not.

Thanks!

Mike

 

[Hoosierkav]

It is cheaper to bury one of those, reinforced with concrete all around than to just use a concrete box?

It might be cheaper to use the 10' dia pipe and create a few rooms off the side? If you went with a 12' pipe, that'd give you some extra space to put in walls and floors without decreasing your space too much. Then again, if it isn't a long-term thing, do you care how cramped you might be?

 

[The Bubba Effect]

Makes sense to me. My cousin has what I believe is a "wonder building" on the family farm that our dads put up to use as a farm garage/shop/shed. It has been up for probably 50 or 60 years and is still in great shape. Those things are tough. I really want to buy a smaller one, bury it and live in it like a hobit house.

Wonder Building | Call: +44 (0) 1227 793364 Sales@Wonderbuilding.co.uk

 

[mikebol]

It is cheaper to bury one of those, reinforced with concrete all around than to just use a concrete box?

I was thinking if I do a lot of the work myself then I could get a lot more of a shelter than having someone else build me something. The steel corrugated dome could be left in place and would seem like a cheap concrete form. Do you think I wouldn't need the concrete? I wasn't sure how much weight the dome would hold on it's own. If I could just use the dome and waterproof it, that'd be even cheaper.

It might be cheaper to use the 10' dia pipe and create a few rooms off the side? If you went with a 12' pipe, that'd give you some extra space to put in walls and floors without decreasing your space too much. Then again, if it isn't a long-term thing, do you care how cramped you might be?

I've never been in a 10' pipe but drawn it out in the garage and it feels cramped. I'm thinking worse case scenario, what if someone took over the house for a few days\week until moving on. I wouldn't expect to live in this for a period of months, but weeks does seem like a possibility.

I do like using the underfloor space for storage in a round pipe configuration. The barn dome would be wider, taller but no underfloor storage.

Mike

 

[The Bubba Effect]

Wonder buildings can be buried. I'm not sure if that is all of them, or if they require special engineering to be buried. I think people tar the outside and maybe put a membrane against the building before burying them. I would consult an engineer regarding load before starting the project. I would hate for my awesome bunker house to cave in on me one night because I used too much of the wrong soil to cover it and the soil sucked up too much water in the rain.
Hardened Structures of Utah

 

[IndyDave1776]

You may also want to consider concrete box culverts. You buy them in sections and seal the joints with a tar product which makes them sufficiently watertight for storm drains and culverts under highways. You may want to seal the entire exterior surface for the purpose in question.

 

[mikebol]

Wonder buildings can be buried. I'm not sure if that is all of them, or if they require special engineering to be buried. I think people tar the outside and maybe put a membrane against the building before burying them. I would consult an engineer regarding load before starting the project. I would hate for my awesome bunker house to cave in on me one night because I used too much of the wrong soil to cover it and the soil sucked up too much water in the rain.
Hardened Structures of Utah

Good link, Bubba, was thinking of a tar waterproofing. Bookmarked! Definitely going to consult an engineer for guidance on this. A cave in is one of the reasons I was considering a concrete exo-structure, not sure what the corrugated steel can withstand. I know the 10' pipes can be buried 20' deep but still need to determine the performance characteristics of a barn type structure.

You may also want to consider concrete box culverts. You buy them in sections and seal the joints with a tar product which makes them sufficiently watertight for storm drains and culverts under highways. You may want to seal the entire exterior surface for the purpose in question.

Dave, have not looked into concrete culverts yet but had considered them briefly. Was a little unsure how expensive these would be. These are on my list to investigate and price out. I'm a little unsure on how I'd attach an exit structure and escape passage\hatch to a concrete culvert without these also being poured concrete. I'll do some more investigation on these types of structures.

 

[Spear Dane]

Be careful what you put in the ground. If it's not designed from the start for that purpose it's probably going to fail. That shed in your picture being a prime example.

 

[IndyDave1776]

Dave, have not looked into concrete culverts yet but had considered them briefly. Was a little unsure how expensive these would be. These are on my list to investigate and price out. I'm a little unsure on how I'd attach an exit structure and escape passage\hatch to a concrete culvert without these also being poured concrete. I'll do some more investigation on these types of structures.

The box culverts can be transitioned into risers with manhole entrances at the elevation of your choice (i.e., below, at, or above ground level).

 

[Ricnzak]

My wife and I are big fans of the shipping containers you see people use. I saw where someone is burying some shipping containers just south of Tipton. The design had several pvc pipes coming up for ventilation. That has made me start thinking of how to hide/camouflage those. Perhaps sharing a common wall with the main house so they appear to be normal roof vents. Tagged to follow your progress.

 

[mikebol]

I've been thinking about this as well, how to hide the pipes coming up out of the ground that just scream "I'm down here". Not only that, but need to add T's in the vent lines to prevent someone from throwing a grenade or gas down the pipe and it coming into the structure. The T would allow the air to enter\exit as needed but a heavy material would simply travel down the pipe and angle away from the structure.

I like those fake landscape rocks that are hollow inside but wonder if they're too unnatural. I was also thinking of making a fake fuel pipe to be placed next to a vent pipe that said "Diesel" on it or something. Run that pipe down in the ground 10' or so and let others think you had an underground fuel tank?

 

[mikebol]

Here is a general layout of what I'm thinking of building. I like the dome\radius structure over the round 10' or 12' pipe or shipping containers.

 

[IndyDave1776]

I've been thinking about this as well, how to hide the pipes coming up out of the ground that just scream "I'm down here". Not only that, but need to add T's in the vent lines to prevent someone from throwing a grenade or gas down the pipe and it coming into the structure. The T would allow the air to enter\exit as needed but a heavy material would simply travel down the pipe and angle away from the structure.

I like those fake landscape rocks that are hollow inside but wonder if they're too unnatural. I was also thinking of making a fake fuel pipe to be placed next to a vent pipe that said "Diesel" on it or something. Run that pipe down in the ground 10' or so and let others think you had an underground fuel tank?

Put up a clothesline above ground with the steel pipe T posts. You can put some screen in the ends of the tubes to keep pests out as well as some more substantial restrictions deep enough in the pipe not to be noticed. Hit the other one with the tractor and let the lines go slack so that it simply looks like an abandoned clothesline near your house. I would think you would not want it in good repair or rust free since looked like a recent addition could interfere with the camouflage value.

 

[bobjones223]

For a guy that makes pretty good money replacing old rotted out corrugated metal pipe I don't think that would be my first choice? If you could get it polly lined I would have to take a second look. Lifespan on C.M.P. is 30-40 years depending on soil types and I would probably just spend the extra money on concrete.

 

[Tactically Fat]

Foundation... lateral pressures from the weight of the soil... vertical loading from the soil...

groundwater issues... hydrostatic pressures laterally...

Hire a competent engineer first. Then go from there.

 

[Thor]

Put up a clothesline above ground with the steel pipe T posts. You can put some screen in the ends of the tubes to keep pests out as well as some more substantial restrictions deep enough in the pipe not to be noticed. Hit the other one with the tractor and let the lines go slack so that it simply looks like an abandoned clothesline near your house. I would think you would not want it in good repair or rust free since looked like a recent addition could interfere with the camouflage value.

I thought that is what rust colored and black flat paint was for?

 

[IndyDave1776]

Foundation... lateral pressures from the weight of the soil... vertical loading from the soil...

groundwater issues... hydrostatic pressures laterally...

Hire a competent engineer first. Then go from there.

Box culvert is already engineered for that plus the weight of highway traffic.

I thought that is what rust colored and black flat paint was for?

You're the artist on your own canvas! Whatever works!

 

[Leadeye]

From a guy who looked at all this years back, just build a good house with a basement. I picked a spot where we didn't have much rock to break up to dig down far enough, also good for a regular septic system. Shallow rock and Karst can make underground living more difficult.

 

[Tactically Fat]

Box culvert is already engineered for that plus the weight of highway traffic.

Generally speaking - yes.

However, they're not meant to have the entire thing buried. And most will also rest on driven pilings - or at least the 3-sided box culverts. But those are essentially miniature bridges.

 

[IndyDave1776]

Generally speaking - yes.

However, they're not meant to have the entire thing buried. And most will also rest on driven pilings - or at least the 3-sided box culverts. But those are essentially miniature bridges.

Those I have worked with were open-ended rectangles which required no pilings and had transitions available into round drain structures with a manhole on top.