Tank Country - Page 6

flagtag · 06-25-2008

I still believe we need to get out of the UN (now) anyway. We're wasting all that money for nothing. They're useless!!! And we could use that money here - like for the flood/tornado victims.

rhino · 06-25-2008

Quote:

Originally Posted by Yamaha

a FN five seven would be much better suited....

The terminal ballistics of the FN 5.7mm round are puny to be generous. It's equivalent to a .22WMR.

Disposable Heart · 06-27-2008

Quote:

Originally Posted by flagtag

I still believe we need to get out of the UN (now) anyway. We're wasting all that money for nothing. They're useless!!! And we could use that money here - like for the flood/tornado victims.

Where did people get that info?! We havent paid any of our UN dues essentially since it was created! The UN will not become an overseeing power:
1. It does not have taxing power. The meny they recieve is from private donations or willing nation state donations. We offer a place for them and occasionally money but mostly troop support in fights we see as beneficial.
2. The UN does not have power to control governments as they are not a Nation state themselves. They cannot hold land (only be granted land by a nation state) they cannot have a standing army (only troops given to them , and even then, still controlled by the nation states themselves) and can only have volunteered support from nation states in the sense of treaties (UN cannot dissolve a nation state's sovereignty). The only times the UN has involved themselves was when the existing controlling nation state has dissolved and have civil war insues.

The idea of UN helicopters landing in one's back yard is meerly a fantasy created by people who are frightful of anything that even challenges their notion of sovereignty or what they think of is even a challenge. You should be worried about US helicopters or acts of terrorism, not a 'mystery organization'. Many people just listen to political shock jocks and dont actually do their own research.

On the 5.7 notion: Barnes makes a 50gr. Banded solid that, while maybe not the best for supersonic flight, is made of homogenous metal. Scary thought

. Would make a pretty (legally) interesting handload!

jeremy · 06-29-2008

DH Good post.
The "evil" UN will certainly not be involved. I don't think our .mil will be involved completely either. I think most of the action will be undertaken by contractors. There are several companies out there who are quite questionable. Most of them work for our .gov in one capacity or another.

SilentWarrior1 · 06-29-2008

As a Veteran, I would have to believe that the majority of our servicemen/women would defect back to their own families at the sign of civil unrest. If for some reason, the military was ordered in on the country, I don't think I'd hold reservation to doing what I had to do to survive.

Any/All Contractors used would become fair game. They will be dispatched and looted. Period.

flagtag · 06-29-2008

Quote:

Originally Posted by SilentWarrior1

As a Veteran, I would have to believe that the majority of our servicemen/women would defect back to their own families at the sign of civil unrest. If for some reason, the military was ordered in on the country, I don't think I'd hold reservation to doing what I had to do to survive.

Any/All Contractors used would become fair game. They will be dispatched and looted. Period.

cce1302 · 06-29-2008

Tanks???
Geez, guys.

Okay, here goes:
Lots of digging. Deep ditches. High berms.
Those things you were talking about? EFPs or explosively formed penetrators. copper plate backed by a bit of plastic explosive. fairly simple to make; extremely effective against armor.
Also an expedient shape charge will work against armor. the right size and shape will drill a very nice hole in a tank hull.
Trees. Big trees. Log post obstacles 12-15" diameter logs, 9' underground, 3-5' above ground.
Abatis.
Log cribs filled with dirt.
Wire, lots of wire. barbed wire is ok if you can't get concertina. tank bubbas go nuts when wire gets in their tracks.
Tetrahedrons and hedgehogs made out of heavy I-beams. each piece 4-6 ft long.
Concrete blocks, 4ft cube.
You could take out bridges as well, but very few of the rivers would be much of an obstacle for tanks anyway.
As many AT and AP mines as you can get. (good luck on that.) set up a standard row pattern minefield.

Now take everything and build a nice complex obstacle belt like they have south of the DMZ in Korea. They've had a few years to construct though...

Disposable Heart · 06-30-2008

Forgot the Ewoks!

+1 Silent. That frightens me more than any bloodthirsty person on the planet: Someone willing to kill for money. I would certainly hope that our government never gets to that point: Desperation. It would have to be a first action if mobilization of (essentially) mercenaries is used.

I would certainly hope that much if not all of the military would be on our side, unfortunately, I am always afraid of the power of media/image that is used all over, especially in how we describe our enemies overseas. The word terrorist can make someone angry and if that label is to be applied to us, there would certainly be an issue regarding those who are "defending the constitution" however under the belief that the people they crush are terrorists/insurgents/rebels, etc...

CCE1302: Cmon, we're just having fun. Join in!

flagtag · 06-30-2008

Quote:

Originally Posted by Disposable Heart

Forgot the Ewoks!

+1 Silent. That frightens me more than any bloodthirsty person on the planet: Someone willing to kill for money. I would certainly hope that our government never gets to that point: Desperation. It would have to be a first action if mobilization of (essentially) mercenaries is used.

I would certainly hope that much if not all of the military would be on our side, unfortunately, I am always afraid of the power of media/image that is used all over, especially in how we describe our enemies overseas. The word terrorist can make someone angry and if that label is to be applied to us, there would certainly be an issue regarding those who are "defending the constitution" however under the belief that the people they crush are terrorists/insurgents/rebels, etc...

CCE1302: Cmon, we're just having fun. Join in!

Don't forget, Nancy Pelosi (sp) - Speaker of the House, wants to have control of radio/tv media to limit what can be broadcast. (in the news this last week) You can bet that her "people" will decide what is broadcast if she has her way.

jeremy · 07-02-2008

Silent
As a serving member that would be my hope as well. But, it depends on how the powers that be worded the orders. The US Army was involved with the Waco Fiasco, and don't forget the deployments into New Orleans.

DH we already use merc's and have for decades.

And I think our biggest enemy will be the people on the "hill". The do control the purse strings.

06-29-2008	#55 (permalink)
SilentWarrior1 Marksman Join Date: Apr 2008 Location: Plainfield, IN Posts: 475	As a Veteran, I would have to believe that the majority of our servicemen/women would defect back to their own families at the sign of civil unrest. If for some reason, the military was ordered in on the country, I don't think I'd hold reservation to doing what I had to do to survive. Any/All Contractors used would become fair game. They will be dispatched and looted. Period. __________________ thelittleroundguy.blogspot.com *"A READING FROM THE BOOK OF ARMAMENTS, CHAPTER 12, VERSE 6-1/2:* And lo, Bigcraig didst produce the blessed SERBU and pass it to his brothers, that they might partake of its awesome power and smite the evil watermelon tangos, whilst giggling like little girls" -Shooter521

06-30-2008	#58 (permalink)
Disposable Heart Get 'em off me!! Join Date: Apr 2008 Posts: 584	Forgot the Ewoks! +1 Silent. That frightens me more than any bloodthirsty person on the planet: Someone willing to kill for money. I would certainly hope that our government never gets to that point: Desperation. It would have to be a first action if mobilization of (essentially) mercenaries is used. I would certainly hope that much if not all of the military would be on our side, unfortunately, I am always afraid of the power of media/image that is used all over, especially in how we describe our enemies overseas. The word terrorist can make someone angry and if that label is to be applied to us, there would certainly be an issue regarding those who are "defending the constitution" however under the belief that the people they crush are terrorists/insurgents/rebels, etc... CCE1302: Cmon, we're just having fun. Join in! __________________ Matinsville Police: "Yes, we carry the Glock .40."

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06-25-2008	#51 (permalink)
flagtag Sharpshooter Join Date: Apr 2008 Location: Westville, IL Posts: 799	I still believe we need to get out of the UN (now) anyway. We're wasting all that money for nothing. They're useless!!! And we could use that money here - like for the flood/tornado victims.

06-29-2008	#54 (permalink)
jeremy Plinker Join Date: Feb 2008 Location: North Central Indiana Posts: 93	DH Good post. The "evil" UN will certainly not be involved. I don't think our .mil will be involved completely either. I think most of the action will be undertaken by contractors. There are several companies out there who are quite questionable. Most of them work for our .gov in one capacity or another.

06-29-2008	#57 (permalink)
cce1302 Breacher Join Date: Jun 2008 Location: South Bend Posts: 65	Tanks??? Geez, guys. Okay, here goes: Lots of digging. Deep ditches. High berms. Those things you were talking about? EFPs or explosively formed penetrators. copper plate backed by a bit of plastic explosive. fairly simple to make; extremely effective against armor. Also an expedient shape charge will work against armor. the right size and shape will drill a very nice hole in a tank hull. Trees. Big trees. Log post obstacles 12-15" diameter logs, 9' underground, 3-5' above ground. Abatis. Log cribs filled with dirt. Wire, lots of wire. barbed wire is ok if you can't get concertina. tank bubbas go nuts when wire gets in their tracks. Tetrahedrons and hedgehogs made out of heavy I-beams. each piece 4-6 ft long. Concrete blocks, 4ft cube. You could take out bridges as well, but very few of the rivers would be much of an obstacle for tanks anyway. As many AT and AP mines as you can get. (good luck on that.) set up a standard row pattern minefield. Now take everything and build a nice complex obstacle belt like they have south of the DMZ in Korea. They've had a few years to construct though...

07-02-2008	#60 (permalink)
jeremy Plinker Join Date: Feb 2008 Location: North Central Indiana Posts: 93	Silent As a serving member that would be my hope as well. But, it depends on how the powers that be worded the orders. The US Army was involved with the Waco Fiasco, and don't forget the deployments into New Orleans. DH we already use merc's and have for decades. And I think our biggest enemy will be the people on the "hill". The do control the purse strings.