Why haven't you taken a training class?

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  • Why have you not taken trining?


    • Total voters
      0

    jagee

    Grandmaster
    Rating - 100%
    24   0   0
    Jan 19, 2013
    44,415
    113
    New Palestine
    I know I need to. I want to. I just haven't scheduled it.

    Lazy? Yeah, probably.
    Poor? Well, just spend money on other things...
    Busy? Yeah, priorities, gotta figure out the order...
     

    chezuki

    Human
    Rating - 100%
    48   0   0
    Mar 18, 2009
    34,152
    113
    Behind Bars
    I hadn't had any training until a couple years ago, but since then I've been as much of a training junkie as my schedule and finances have allowed.

    Until I started training, I truely didn't know how much I didn't know. I felt confident enough just having a gun on me, and at that point, nothing had challenged that confidence. I could stand on a range and punch holes in paper from "self defense" distances and further pretty consistently, so I figured I was good to go.
     

    BehindBlueI's

    Grandmaster
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    29   0   0
    Oct 3, 2012
    25,890
    113
    I truely didn't know how much I didn't know. I felt confident enough just having a gun on me, and at that point, nothing had challenged that confidence.

    I think that's where a lot of people are, and why the good guys lose as much as they do. In the past two weeks we've had people two people fail to effectively use their handgun to interrupt a crime. One did not involve injury but did involve loss of the handgun in the struggle. The other was less lucky and injury occurred.

    Simply having a gun is often not enough. The poor success ratio is actually what motivated me to offer the class with Coach. I'd rather see more of you win.
     

    MCgrease08

    Grandmaster
    Rating - 100%
    37   0   0
    Mar 14, 2013
    14,374
    149
    Earth
    I think a lot of people just get hung up on not knowing where to start.

    Someone who has been around guns their whole life and shooting for 20 years + probably doesn't want to take a basic pistol class because they may feel it's beneath their level.

    A new gun owner might be intimidated by the thought of a class because they don't want to seem foolish or green.

    I think a lot of times people just don't know what they don't know. They get stuck not trying anything because they don't understand what foundational skills they need to build.
     

    esrice

    Certified Regular Guy
    Rating - 100%
    20   0   0
    Jan 16, 2008
    24,095
    48
    Indy
    Training should be relevant, realistic, and recent. I've been failing on the "recent" part. Mostly due to other areas that I've given priority.
     

    NIFT

    Master
    Rating - 0%
    0   0   0
    Jul 3, 2009
    1,616
    38
    Fort Wayne, Indiana
    I think a lot of people just get hung up on not knowing where to start.

    Someone who has been around guns their whole life and shooting for 20 years + probably doesn't want to take a basic pistol class because they may feel it's beneath their level.

    A new gun owner might be intimidated by the thought of a class because they don't want to seem foolish or green.

    I think a lot of times people just don't know what they don't know. They get stuck not trying anything because they don't understand what foundational skills they need to build.

    Excellent!
    I have seen and heard the above--especially the bolded items.

    Some other responses/excuses I have heard (just some; they are legion!):
    "Pffft...I was raised on a farm."
    "I'm good. I got me a concealed carry permit and ain't never shot myself."
    "I'm 55 years old and ain't never shot myself."
    "I was in the military."
    "My father/uncle/brother/whatever was a cop."

    And my favorite: "I've been around guns all my life."

    If you have an interest, do a search on the Dunning-Kruger effect. David Dunning and Justin Kruger, Cornell University researchers, identified the illusory superiority phenomenon and won the 2000 Nobel Prize for psychology for their efforts.
     

    One Shot One Kill

    Sharpshooter
    Rating - 100%
    9   0   0
    Oct 15, 2014
    505
    18
    Near The Dunes
    I don't think I'm beter off without training, in fact my confidence shooting handguns is sub-par at best. I just recently (last year or 2) gotten into handgun shooting, and unlike when I started shooting rifles, I have no one to offer advice or help hone my skills.
    I haven't taken a class yet due to:
    1. I'm poor
    2. Never hear about any nearby (NWI within 1hr or so of valpo)
    3. Ones that are offered nearby are VERY entry level, and while I may not be that great, I have at least surpassed learning basic gun skills and paying for a class that teaches me where the safety is, etc, doesn't seem like its worth the money to me as much as it would someone who'd never shot a gun before.
    4. I'm poor, like really.. college sucks (graduating in a week though!)
     

    rhino

    Grandmaster
    Rating - 100%
    24   0   0
    Mar 18, 2008
    30,906
    113
    Indiana
    I don't think I'm beter off without training, in fact my confidence shooting handguns is sub-par at best. I just recently (last year or 2) gotten into handgun shooting, and unlike when I started shooting rifles, I have no one to offer advice or help hone my skills.
    I haven't taken a class yet due to:
    1. I'm poor
    2. Never hear about any nearby (NWI within 1hr or so of valpo)
    3. Ones that are offered nearby are VERY entry level, and while I may not be that great, I have at least surpassed learning basic gun skills and paying for a class that teaches me where the safety is, etc, doesn't seem like its worth the money to me as much as it would someone who'd never shot a gun before.
    4. I'm poor, like really.. college sucks (graduating in a week though!)

    Contact Frank Sharpe: Fortess Defense Consultants

    If you really want to learn, I think he can work something out with you. He's based in Crete, IL, but does classes in Rochester, IN and other ranges in NW Indiana. Don't worry about having surpassed what he can teach you because you have not and are unlikely to do so in the immediate future.
     

    Jackson

    Master
    Rating - 0%
    0   0   0
    Mar 31, 2008
    3,337
    63
    West side of Indy
    Some other responses/excuses I have heard (just some; they are legion!):
    But, but, but I could buy another gun for all that money, just to learn stuff I ALREADY KNOW EVERTHING ABOUT... ;)

    The goal in posting this question is to initiate some discussion about barriers to training. Hopefully we'll hear from some real people about their personal reasons. I doubt belittling their reasons and mocking them will generate much real discussion. Not everyone will think the reasons are valid, but they are valid to the people I'm hoping will respond. Maybe we'll be able to bridge the gap for some people, as rhino has attempted to do by suggesting a nearby trainer. Maybe the reasoning will be convincing and even the hard core training advocates will decide some people just don't need it. Either way, I'm not sure posts like those quoted above will further the discussion.

    There are 37,000 INGO members. Only a couple hundred post in the T&T forum with any regularity. There are more than 3x as many threads in the Carry Issues and Self Defense subforum as there are in T&T. There are 6.5X as many posts in those threads. With so many members concerned and posting about carry topics and self-defense, I'm curious to know why those same folks aren't over here seeking training.


    :)
     

    Jackson

    Master
    Rating - 0%
    0   0   0
    Mar 31, 2008
    3,337
    63
    West side of Indy
    Anyone who indicated, or will indicate, they cannot afford training, I would be interested in hearing about your situation. If you don't want to post publicly, please feel free to PM me if you're willing to share.

    If you indicated you don't feel you'd get enough value, or that you don't need training, I'd be interested in hearing more about that as well. Please post in the thread about what you see is lacking in the value proposition of the available training opportunities.
     

    bwframe

    Loneranger
    Site Supporter
    Rating - 100%
    93   0   0
    Feb 11, 2008
    38,170
    113
    Btown Rural
    ...There are 37,000 INGO members. Only a couple hundred post in the T&T forum with any regularity. There are more than 3x as many threads in the Carry Issues and Self Defense subforum as there are in T&T. There are 6.5X as many posts in those threads. With so many members concerned and posting about carry topics and self-defense, I'm curious to know why those same folks aren't over here seeking training...

    The Carry Issues and Self Defense forum seems to be fairly dominated by open carry issues and LEO encounter problems. With all due respect to that part of the INGO crowd, a lot of those folks seem to be more interested in "fixing" those that they encounter rather than getting training for themselves. :twocents:
     

    ModernGunner

    Shooter
    Rating - 0%
    0   0   0
    Jan 29, 2010
    4,749
    63
    NWI
    If you carry a gun, you 'must' train, and consistently so ("consistently" being a relative term). And training should be 'mandatory'.

    Mandatory not because some government agency requires it, but mandatory because the gun folks themselves 'demand' it.

    Even LEO's often are trained insufficiently. We know this due to repeatedly reading / hearing incidents of LEO's being 'ambushed', shot, and killed. And such incidents appear even more prevalent among civilian law-abiding gun-toters. This is simply unacceptable.

    And training must go beyond simply punching holes in paper, or running from 'station to station' hitting steel targets. That only addresses the physicality of a gunfight, which is limited for each of us. Regardless of rhetoric to the contrary, we all have a level of maximum proficiency due to our physical limitations, age, and so forth.

    Even if the individual is actually at that maximum skill level, that still is insufficient to prepare one for a gunfight. The fastest or most accurate shooter in the confrontation doesn't 'automatically' win, and we all know it. Why is that? Because gunfights aren't about who is fastest, or even most accurate. Gunfights are about conflict between opposing sides (whether 2 people, 1 person and several, or whatever). A conflict, however it began, that's degrading or degraded into a shooting scenario.

    Training must incorporate other, more important, factors. Psychological preparation, adrenaline, situational awareness, situational control, and so on. In other words, how to THINK in such a situation. Think fluidly and expansively, as the situation becomes more fluid and the degradation expands.

    A gunfight isn't won by 'being the better man'. It's won by out-thinking the bad guy(s). "Disrupting the bad guys OODA loop", by being so 'far' ahead of them that they're 'beaten before they start'. But we don't do near enough of that, and MOST shooting classes touch upon that very little, or not at all. And a shooting range isn't even needed for these aspects, the most important factors.

    So, why is that? Well, one reason is that it's not as fun as punching holes or clinking steel or burning up 600 rounds in a couple hours. So, it may not be as profitable for the training community. That's not an inference that ALL Trainers are just out for the money, though some are, as we've come to see.

    Another reason is because the Trainers themselves may not have the knowledge and / or experience to teach it. Tough to teach something ya don't know. If the Trainer hasn't "been there, done that", how can they train others for it? Theory is great, but it's still theory. And like it or not, theory can get ya killed on the streets 'cause the bad guys don't know 'that's how it's supposed to work'.

    According to theory, the bumblee can't fly, but he'll still sting ya if ya confront him with his 'lack of knowledge'.
     

    One Shot One Kill

    Sharpshooter
    Rating - 100%
    9   0   0
    Oct 15, 2014
    505
    18
    Near The Dunes
    Contact Frank Sharpe: Fortess Defense Consultants

    If you really want to learn, I think he can work something out with you. He's based in Crete, IL, but does classes in Rochester, IN and other ranges in NW Indiana. Don't worry about having surpassed what he can teach you because you have not and are unlikely to do so in the immediate future.
    I'll have to think about that, as much as I would love to get some training, I've never been one to ask for charity. If his class costs $365, I might just have to start saving whatever I can.
    @modern gunner - Can't you read? OP (and me) don't care on what you think about training, unless it pertains to why you don't do it. I would like everyone to have mandatory reading/writing comprehension skills before being allowed to converse with other people in textual form, but I don't think they shouldn't be allowed to voice their opinions (even if it's done poorly). It's not practical for everyone, and neither is training. Should everyone try to train to prepare to defend themselves? YES! But not everyone can for various reasons, the OP is trying to figure this out, not hear why training should be "mandatory". Most here already know why training is good.

    ALSO, time/too busy is a reason for me too that I left out previously. 17 credit hours (+2hrs recommended study time for every 1hr class time) + 15hrs parttime work = about a 66 hour work week... Not much time for anything but work and schooling. I don't strictly adhere to 2hrs study time for every hour of class though, as I'd go crazy.. and I still feel busy enough.
     
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    cedartop

    Grandmaster
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    1   0   0
    Apr 25, 2010
    6,687
    113
    North of Notre Dame.
    The goal in posting this question is to initiate some discussion about barriers to training. Hopefully we'll hear from some real people about their personal reasons. I doubt belittling their reasons and mocking them will generate much real discussion. Not everyone will think the reasons are valid, but they are valid to the people I'm hoping will respond. Maybe we'll be able to bridge the gap for some people, as rhino has attempted to do by suggesting a nearby trainer. Maybe the reasoning will be convincing and even the hard core training advocates will decide some people just don't need it. Either way, I'm not sure posts like those quoted above will further the discussion.

    There are 37,000 INGO members. Only a couple hundred post in the T&T forum with any regularity. There are more than 3x as many threads in the Carry Issues and Self Defense subforum as there are in T&T. There are 6.5X as many posts in those threads. With so many members concerned and posting about carry topics and self-defense, I'm curious to know why those same folks aren't over here seeking training.


    :)
    That is why when I first saw this I thought it might be better off in General Firearms or Carry Issues and self defense. Go where the people are who aren't training and ask them.

    For the first year in a while, I will not be attending many classes. My excuse is the usual, time and money.
     
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