Pumping gas scenario

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  • foszoe

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    Last week, I was filling up on 30th street which is much busier than my usual station. I found myself going through a mental exercise to prevent what just happened to this deputy. I found I didn't like standing in between the pump and the car. Trip hazard with the hose, an approach from the opposite side of the pump could easily close on me way to fast, and 2 from that direction would trap me quickly. I ended up at the drivers side front corner where I could see both sides of the pump and an approach using the pump would still have to navigate around the hose or the trash can. The car would provide quick cover, yes cover not concealment because of the engine, from a passenger side attack. This also provided me a clearer shot for protection of my wife sitting in the front seat.

    What do I do wrong? What do you do that could prevent it from happening to you?
     

    eldirector

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    Use the farthest pump, with no vehicles nearby. Avoid busy stations. Don't fill up late at night. Use well-lighted stations. Pay at the pump (don't walk back and forth, or leave the vehicle).

    My filler is on the driver's side, so leave the driver's door open as a barrier. The hose acts as a barrier from the other direction. Keys in the ignition (and usually on, but not running, for me - I watch the fuel gauge rise).

    When we lived in town, my wife and I were approached by bums CONSTANTLY. Learned a few tricks to keep some distance. Now, it is just habit.
     

    churchmouse

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    Speedway area
    Use the farthest pump, with no vehicles nearby. Avoid busy stations. Don't fill up late at night. Use well-lighted stations. Pay at the pump (don't walk back and forth, or leave the vehicle).

    My filler is on the driver's side, so leave the driver's door open as a barrier. The hose acts as a barrier from the other direction. Keys in the ignition (and usually on, but not running, for me - I watch the fuel gauge rise).

    When we lived in town, my wife and I were approached by bums CONSTANTLY. Learned a few tricks to keep some distance. Now, it is just habit.

    The tricks you speak of is all part of life in "Town"

    We were filling up in Avon the other day and were approached there. When I displayed my disapproval they got in a very nice car and rolled out. My spouse was showing her cell as if to say.......911 as well. I think that made them go more than the verbal abuse from me.

    They are branching out these days.

    Keep your head on a swivel. Asses the station as you enter it.
     

    eldirector

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    Avon, especially US36, is really just an extension of Indianapolis.

    Amazing how few people even make an attempt at SA. Car running while they go inside to pay, never hang up their cell phone, radio blaring, etc....
     

    dudley0

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    Use the farthest pump, with no vehicles nearby. Avoid busy stations. Don't fill up late at night. Use well-lighted stations. Pay at the pump (don't walk back and forth, or leave the vehicle).

    My filler is on the driver's side, so leave the driver's door open as a barrier. The hose acts as a barrier from the other direction. Keys in the ignition.

    I do all of these. Have for some time now. I don't live in a big town. When I travel to one I always fill up before I leave.

    Not that small towns don't have the problem, but less busy stations means I don't have as much to watch for while I am filling up.

    Pay at the pump is fantastic... I get my receipt, don't wait for the idiot buying candy bars with pennies, don't have people asking for money, directions, a light or the time, and most importantly I don't get suckered into buying something else that I didn't want in the first place.

    I want to be by my vehicle for a fast exit if the need arises.
     

    GIJEW

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    Aside for "eviornmental variables" like time of day, location, etc, aside from having your head on a swivel (or having your spouse watching your back), the only other thing you can really do is to be ready to surprise-counter-attack. In the time it takes you to swipe your credit card or handle the pump nozzle, they could rush you from the opposite row of pumps or wherever.
     

    churchmouse

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    Avon, especially US36, is really just an extension of Indianapolis.

    Amazing how few people even make an attempt at SA. Car running while they go inside to pay, never hang up their cell phone, radio blaring, etc....

    It is. Non-stop humanity all the way out past Prestwick.
     

    17 squirrel

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    Ahhhh. I'm not scared.,.,.,. I tell the girl, hey take the hooptee. And give her 20 bucks and she fills it up. I learned that during the times of the DC beltway Sniper. :dunno:
     

    KellyinAvon

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    The tricks you speak of is all part of life in "Town"

    We were filling up in Avon the other day and were approached there. When I displayed my disapproval they got in a very nice car and rolled out. My spouse was showing her cell as if to say.......911 as well. I think that made them go more than the verbal abuse from me.

    They are branching out these days.

    Keep your head on a swivel. Asses the station as you enter it.

    Which station in Avon, CM?? Inquiring minds (and locals) want to know.
     

    WebSnyper

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    It is. Non-stop humanity all the way out past Prestwick.
    Unfortunately this is now the case and has been for some time. It wasn't when we first moved out here though. I try and stay off of 36 when I possibly can.

    Which station in Avon, CM?? Inquiring minds (and locals) want to know.
    Agreed, would like to know. I try and stay off of 36 whenever possible, but sometimes there isn't another good choice.

    Also, in addition to the other tips mentioned, folks should make sure that all other doors besides the drivers door are locked (if you are so inclined like others have said to leave that one unlocked). This keeps someone from slipping in a door on the other side of the vehicle from you and either waiting for you in the vehicle, or stealing any valuables such as purses, laptops, etc.
     

    EdC

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    My filler is on the driver's side, so leave the driver's door open as a barrier. The hose acts as a barrier from the other direction. Keys in the ignition (and usually on, but not running, for me - I watch the fuel gauge rise).

    Are you between your open driver side door and the hose? For me, that means I'm trapped between the driver's side door and the hose. I take my keys, close the door, and stand near the back of my car, so I move if I have to. To each his own, of course.
     

    jdhaines

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    I've been following this and can't sit back any longer. I'm going to break my reply into a couple different topics.

    Mobility / Movement
    First things first, lets try to get out of the old habit of carrying on tired gun-guy mantras. Forget "back to the wall of the restaurant", "I'll fight with my back in a corner so I can't get surprised.", and "no one gets within 21 feet of me." They are total crap. Remember the saying "movement is life." What you want are decisions and options that give you freedom to move and make future decisions. I have to go completely opposite of eldirector here and into the corner with EdC. Pinning yourself between a door and a hose is insane. You are locking yourself into a box where you have very limited decisions. Guys accosting you at a gas station aren't usually trying to shoot/knife/punch you...they want to interact with you and get what they want. They can talk past a hose. They can intimidate past a hose. Give yourself options. Two examples:
    1. Get out, lock the doors, keys in the pocket, and get your gas. Then while the pump is running make a show out of circling the car and kicking the tires. Push down on the hood, inspect the windshield wipers, etc. It would look perfectly normal to anyone watching. Also you're doing a 360 circle around the vehicle and recognizing anything unusual around you. If you have kids/wife/husband in the car...it doesn't matter. If someone starts to panhandle you, deal with them, circle away from the car. The kids are safe in a steel box with locked doors. If the guy peels off of you and heads for the car...game on. But at least you tried to lead them away and if you need to go light things off when the guy flips the door handle of your driver's door at least the security cameras are going to show your side of the story. The car won't get that hot or cold in the time it takes to pump gas.
    2. If you have to take care of something after the gas is done, start the car, lock the doors, put it in gear, seat belt on, and sit there as long as it takes to text the wife, balance the checkbook, or beat the kids. If someone taps on the window you're a foot movement away from pulling out. No starting, no deciding, etc. Just push the skinny one on the right and go.
    These are simple examples, but they work and illustrate my point. Options, specifically non-gun options are the thing we want to maximize.

    Situational Awareness

    As a follow-on to the above notes, stop thinking about situational awareness as a thing. It isn't. The pointy spear guys who are "switched on" all the time end up with mental and life issues because of it. Just be a normal human being and admit that sometimes you have laser focus to the slightest rustle of leaves all around you...and other times you're in condition brown and your awareness is about as wide as an iphone screen. Let's just deal with it. Point 2 above is a way to deal with it. Don't get out to pump gas if you have things that need your attention in the vehicle. Deal with them in a safe manner, then deal with your gas. If someone pulls in close to you and you realize the location in which you are standing has become a little crowded...move. When you are in a compromised position, take steps to be sure you are safe. Don't be the classic gun guy who thinks he's always paying attention...you aren't that guy. One of the best instructors I've ever met said "Be honest about the problem, and then do the work." It's a simple line that encompasses the entire problem and solution. We all understand how people behave at gas stations. Be honest about how you behave, and do some work to think of a better solution. The answer is not to open the doors as a barrier, or only go to lighted gas stations, or only go to empty gas stations, or never let your tank get below 7/8ths, or only use the furthest pump, or any other silly damn ideas people are throwing out without any thought because they heard another gun guy say them once. These "tips" are not how real people live. So be honest about the situation and think about honest solutions.

    Training

    There are many trainers and classes that cover this area very well, and from different angles. I'm not one to hawk my wares in dumb places but past students will back me up that this exact scenario is covered in detail for between 3 and 8 hours of the 8 hour class. We're doing one that is sold out in Indy soon so there will be more "past students" on here that can verify what I'm saying. Aside from that, early trainers in this space include Craig Douglas, Paul Sharp, Larry Lindenman, Cecil Burch, etc among the TPI crowd. Shay at Mindset Labs covers this problem albeit from a slightly different (though no less important) direction. Other force on force trainers can provide solutions to pieces of the puzzle. Some long time LEOs, psychologists, and detectives have answers to these problems if they take the time to figure out a way to teach what they've learned and used over many years interacting with the public. I've seen lots of guys be able to solve these problems but not be able to explain to someone else how it all works. The good news for everyone is this area is becoming increasingly popular among trainers and more classes are popping up. We'll have to be aware of ****birds in the space...but they seem to be few and far between at this point. The danger of bandwagon-jumpers is something we've seen in every other training fad and this will be no different.

    To avoid this being simply a pitch, I'll throw out some help. To succeed in this area there are a few skill sets you should try to shore up. Verbal agility is a huge one. If you can keep up a conversation with a random stranger about random things while using a small amount of brain power...it's easier to stay ahead of the curve. Lawyers, salesman, and medium-to-long term cops seem to have an edge here. Most of us normal people need to practice it. Another skill is a solid understanding of our own faults in behavior. If you are one of the common people who grab your phone and are absorbed when you hear a text...know that - own it - and take steps so it doesn't get you hurt. If you let people in close too easily and are too trusting...understand that, but build a safety net into your framework for dealing with the public. Lastly is have a framework. Have a plan that takes care of interacting with a stranger, learns their intentions, sets up a good case if things do go sideways, and gives you a fixed non-diagnostic way to handle the start of a fight that might happen. Have this framework in place ahead of time so you aren't trying to think and add layers of decisions on decisions. Hick's law can be a real ***** if you let it.

    This ended up a little snarky and no offense intended at the guys I mentioned above (eldirector, et al). I'm going to let it ride though because I think it's important information.
     

    chezuki

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    Mar 18, 2009
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    Behind Bars
    There are many trainers and classes that cover this area very well, and from different angles. I'm not one to hawk my wares in dumb places but past students will back me up that this exact scenario is covered in detail for between 3 and 8 hours of the 8 hour class.

    My first thought when reading this thread title was "that sounds familiar".
     
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