Prioritization of training

[hog slayer]

As each of us go about our lives we only have so much time or financial equity. How do you prioritize your training? As I list considerations in my attempt to plan and budget for 2017 training I keep coming across noon standard training ideas. Truly zombies have long ago exceeded their budget and so while high round count classes are absolutely fun, the cost is extreme and the realism a bit low.

How do you prioritize training and classes? What topics dominate?

 

[Sticky]

My priorities are:

• situational awareness - watch your back and don't walk into iffy situations. Be aware of your surroundings.
• target practice - maybe 5 shots in 5 seconds within a 3"x5" index card as far away as current skill allows. Strong hand, weak hand (e.g. 5% to 10% of rounds fired), and 2 handed. A .22 can help with expenses at first; quickly paying for itself.
• legalities - research it yourself at this website, other sources, and/or consider Relford's classes on what makes a "good" shoot. "When you can" is perhaps more important than "how you can".

After the above, take any classes that sound interesting and within your budget. Realism will be hard to come by. One fun way to add pressure to shooting practice can be to shoot dueling trees with a friend or attend bowling pin competitions, etc...

 

[hog slayer]

No doubt competitions add to the difficulty by imposing stress. I rarely go to the range without a kettle bell or sandbag anymore. Where does something like first aid fall out?

 

[cedartop]

No doubt competitions add to the difficulty by imposing stress. I rarely go to the range without a kettle bell or sandbag anymore. Where does something like first aid fall out?

Honestly? It should be tied for first with the whole "Recognizing the Threat", component, but it seldom is. If you really want to prioritize the things you are more likely to need, that is how it would go. Now since I have about 1,000 hours of firearms training, I don't listen to my own advice as much as I should, but there you go.

 

[szorn]

As each of us go about our lives we only have so much time or financial equity. How do you prioritize your training? As I list considerations in my attempt to plan and budget for 2017 training I keep coming across noon standard training ideas. Truly zombies have long ago exceeded their budget and so while high round count classes are absolutely fun, the cost is extreme and the realism a bit low.

How do you prioritize training and classes? What topics dominate?

Personally my objective is the ability to protect self and others as well as courses that help me to improve my instructional ability. If it doesn't fit those objectives or the criteria I set forth I don't waste time, money, or energy with it.

Steve

 

[hog slayer]

In a continuing effort towards training efficiency what subjects could be expected for one to encounter in a lifetime? How many realistic scenarios are there and, somehow balanced in likelihood of occurrence, what level of competency would be needed to prevail?

 

[Sticky]

This url has a list of crime rates. The categories listed are rather broad. Encounter chances would likely vary a lot depending on your activities and habits, etc...

 

[Coach]

In a continuing effort towards training efficiency what subjects could be expected for one to encounter in a lifetime? How many realistic scenarios are there and, somehow balanced in likelihood of occurrence, what level of competency would be needed to prevail?

BBI and I will be doing the Defensive Concept class in April at Riley. Every situation in that class was a real world encounter in Marion County. Plus he has some statistics about crime that he has investigated. So the class has a local flavor to it.

 

[hog slayer]

Coach

This?


Instructional League
Saturday April 29, 2017
Riley Conservation Club (Bay 7)
Instructor Aron Bright
Cost:$35 cash at the door. Correct change is appreciated
Registration starts at 1:30 pm First shot by 2pm
Must RSVP via email to abright@ccrtc.com

 

[cedartop]

Coach

This?


Instructional League
Saturday April 29, 2017
Riley Conservation Club (Bay 7)
Instructor Aron Bright
Cost:$35 cash at the door. Correct change is appreciated
Registration starts at 1:30 pm First shot by 2pm
Must RSVP via email to abright@ccrtc.com

No, this.

 

[gewehr3]

If one were to be honest about what actual causes of death are, we should concentrate on our diets, regular check ups, de-stress, join a gym, go to professional driving schools, and maybe a BJJ or similar martial art. Take a Tom Givens pistol class, and then just practice. The rest is hobby stuff. Heart attacks, diabetes, cancer, and car accidents are the realistic threats to us.

 

[BehindBlueI's]

BBI and I will be doing the Defensive Concept class in April at Riley. Every situation in that class was a real world encounter in Marion County. Plus he has some statistics about crime that he has investigated. So the class has a local flavor to it.

https://www.indianagunowners.com/forums/tactics-training/429645-defensive-concepts-level-1-a.html

This is the one he's talking about. The whole point of the class is to show you what real random crimes looked like, to learn pre-attack indicators, OODA loop as applicable to self defense shooting, etc. If you've already got your gun safety and some fundamental marksmanship down, this is a good next step. It shows you what's realistic vs what's fantasy, as well as touches on how to see trouble coming and avoid it if you can...and cheat if you can't.

I'd then recommend some decision making under stress training, possible simunitions or the like. Roll in some first aid training, maybe something like SouthNarc's managing unknown contacts, a legal class, and only then would I start worrying about more advanced marksmanship and gun handling skills.

 

[Coach]

Sorry for the confusion. I suck.

 

[Tom Givens]

When setting up our own training and practice program we are all faced with trying to determine how to prioritize the various skills we could work to improve. Which skills should have priority? Which skills are more secondary? It is my belief that when many shooters and a lot of trainers look at this issue they tend to be guided by the wrong information.

In this country law enforcement officers are involved in a lot of shooting incidents which are well documented. The FBI has been gathering and collating information on these incidents since the 1930s, and each year they put out a report referred to as LEOKA. That is the Law Enforcement Officers Killed and Assaulted Summary. Each year in the US typically somewhere between 75 and 100 police officers are killed feloniously in the line of duty. The LEOKA report has a brief, several paragraph summary of each incident in which a police officer was killed in the previous year. For many this serves as the basis for setting up their firearms training program.

I have a couple of problems with this approach. First, we're studying the officers who, to put it bluntly, lost the fight. Second, the vast majority of these officers were working uniform patrol. The duties of a uniformed police patrol officer lead them to be involved in many, many dangerous incidents which frankly have nothing to do with the life of the typical private citizen. The majority of shootings involving police patrol personnel generally fall into one of three categories. The first is traffic stops. Often an officer stopped the car for a minor traffic violation without knowing the occupant is a dangerous and wanted felon. The second general area is bar enforcement. Officers go into seedy bars to enforce liquor laws, drug laws, gambling laws, prostitution laws, to break up fights, and to look for parole violators. The third dangerous area consists of responding to domestic violence calls. The cops go into the trailers, apartments, and houses of people who are already drunk and fighting. As you can see these three types of activity carry significant risk of being involved in violence. However, they have no crossover to the typical private citizen.

The problem is, this is about the only place most people know to look for information on gunfights. Although the information is not terribly relevant to the law-abiding citizen it's all they have access to. I have done a lot of research over the past several years trying to find out exactly what is commonly involved in private citizen self-defense incidents and I have found a number of recurring themes. I prefer to structure my personal practice and what I teach to private citizens on these issues that I see coming up over and over again in private citizen self-defense shootings.

Before getting into my own students' experiences I'd like to touch on two law enforcement agencies whose experiences pretty much mirror those of the private citizen. The first is the FBI. The FBI's special agents are required by policy to keep their weapons concealed when they're in business clothing and outside of their office. Thus when out in public they are dressed like private citizens and carry concealed handguns. FBI agents do not make traffic stops, they don't do bar enforcement, and they don't answer domestic violence calls. It surprises lot of people to find out that around half of all FBI agent involved shootings occur because some thug does not realize they are law enforcement and tries to hold them up or carjack them. Therefore, their incidents closely reflect those of the private citizen carrying a concealed handgun. From 1989 to 1994 FBI agents were involved in an average of 20 to 30 shootings per year and here is how the data from those shootings broke down: 92% occurred at a distance of 6 to 10 feet; the average number rounds fired was 3.2. You will notice a striking similarity between these figures and those involving my private citizen students.

The Drug Enforcement Administration's agents also get into a lot of plain clothes shootings because of the nature of undercover narcotics work. In 2007 the DEA had 44 defensive shootings. The average distance involved was 14.6 feet and the average number shots fired was five.

Over the past 20 or so years 66 students of mine that I know about have been involved in defensive gunplay against criminals. These are the ones that I know of, who have reported back to the school or that I learned of through law enforcement contacts. Of those 66 incidents the record is 63 wins/zero losses/3 forfeits. Of the 63 students who were armed at the time of their encounter they all won and only three were injured. We have, unfortunately, had three students that I know of who lost their encounter and died. All three were killed in separate street robberies and all three were unarmed at the time of the incident, hence the term "forfeit". It's hard to win a gunfight if you did not bring your gun! Since 63 out of 63 students who were armed won their fights we must be doing something right.

So, let's look at some of the circumstances and conditions involving those fights, see how they compare to the FBI and DEA experience, and see if this information can help us structure our training programs correctly. First, the single most common type of crime resulting in defensive gun use seems to be some form of armed robbery. Whether someone is robbing your business, sticking you up on the parking lot, trying to take your car at gunpoint, or it's an armed home invasion these are all simply variations of armed robbery. There are a lot of common misconceptions about armed robbery. For one thing, armed robberies do not normally commence at arm's length. The whole purpose of the robber's gun or knife is to terrorize the victim into compliance from a safe distance. Once the victim is compliant the robber moves in to take the wallet, purse, car keys, bank bag or whatever it is he's after. I often say that in our context confrontational distances are the same as conversational distances. In our culture we speak to people, especially strangers, from two or three steps away initially. That is also the distance from which armed robberies are often initiated.

Another common misconception is that bad guys beam down from the Mothership and suddenly appear next to you. Of course, this is nonsense. An awful lot of victims will try earnestly to convince you of this. "Jeez it all happened so fast! He materialized right next to me ! I never saw him!" I wish I had a hundred dollars for every time I've heard that exact quote from a surviving violent crime victim. What they are admitting is that they were walking along with their head completely up their butt, totally unaware of their surroundings, and oblivious to the people and activities around them. They were walking through the parking lot texting or yakking on a cell phone or were otherwise distracted and preoccupied and completely failed to see obvious warning signs all around them. We stress this to our students and encourage them to get their head up, open their eyes, and pay attention to their environment. This is the key to dealing with the problem before it is right on top of you.

With that background information in mind let's look at the 60+ incidents involving our students. First let's look at the distances involved. Only two incidents occurred at contact distance. In one of those cases physical contact between the attacker and the defender was deliberate, in the other that contact was purely accidental. This goes back to what I said about initiating conversations from outside of contact distance, and of the advantage of being aware of your surroundings and being able to challenge someone before they are within arm's reach.

Distances beyond 7 yards were only involved in 5.2% of the incidents. Keep in mind though that that's about one incident in each 20. We have had private citizen students who were forced to fire in defense of themselves or a family member at distances of 15, 17, and 22 yards. Thus, our practice regimen should include some shooting beyond 7 yards. As I was debriefing the student involved in the shooting at 22 yards he said to me,"You know, when I had to hit that guy all the way across the street it never occurred to me that I was a statistical exception. I just had to deal with it." Truer words were never spoken. You may be the individual faced with that somewhat rare longer distance shot so you should be prepared for it.

The rest of the shootings, 93.1% of them, occurred at between 3 yards and 7 yards with over 80% occurring between 3 and 5 yards. The typical American sedan is 16 feet long, so one car length is about 5 yards. It would be safe to say then, that the majority of private citizen self-defense shootings occur between a couple of steps away and the length of a typical car. Based on that we do the majority of our training and practice in that 3 to 5 yard range.

Our shooting incidents typically involve a fairly small number of shots, say 3 to 4 rounds. We have, however had a number of shootings that required more rounds. Right off I can recall student's shootings involving 8, 11, and 12 rounds. None of our students have had to reload during a fight although I can think of three who went to slide lock. Fortunately, no further firing was necessary at that point. In our training we heavily stress firing with two hands at eye level. We only shoot with one hand if we only have one hand available. As a result the vast majority of our students’ shootings have involved two-handed eye level shooting and as a result the hit ratio is running around 95%.

No student has used nor felt the need for a flashlight in any of our shootings. This is another topic in which there is a lot of misunderstanding among the shooting population.

There is an often quoted statistic that says 80% of pistol fights occur in the dark. This is nonsense. A more accurate statement would be that 80% of pistol fights occur during the hours of darkness. For statistical purposes the hours of darkness are from 6 PM until 6 AM. Obviously in much of the country it is not dark during that entire period. Secondly, criminal encounters do not occur in a vacuum. There is no more reason for a Bad Guy to be in the dark than there is for you to be in the dark. Just because it's 3 AM on the Stop 'n Rob parking lot does not mean it's dark. In fact with modern commercial lighting I have actually seen my sights more clearly late at night on one of these parking lots than in the afternoon on an overcast day. Law enforcement officers often have to go into very dark places to search out hiding suspects. Again, it is matter of context. That is completely different than a thug approaching you on a lighted parking lot at night.

To summarize, our students' experience and those of the FBI and DEA seem to be quite similar. Shootings involve a defender in civilian clothing with a concealed handgun. The majority of the FBI's shootings occurred at 6 to 10 feet; the DEA's at an average of 14.6 feet; and the vast majority of ours at 3 to 5 yards. Typically, the number of shots fired is fairly low but there are numerous exceptions. Shootings at 15 to 25 yards occur far less frequently but often enough to be of concern. With this in mind I would suggest the following as the skills a private citizen should work toward competency in:

fast, efficient, reliable presentation of the handgun from concealment

the ability to accurately place several quick shots into an anatomically important area of the target at a distance of 3 to 5 yards

the ability to place an anatomically important hit in a reasonable amount of time beyond 7 yards out to at least 25 yards

the ability to reload the handgun quickly and efficiently, especially if it holds less than 10 rounds

the ability to rapidly move off the line of force (sidestep) without hindering the presentation of the pistol from concealment.

Other skills such as malfunction remedies; alternate shooting positions, such as kneeling; the use of cover; and flashlight assisted shooting techniques could be useful skills once mastery of the basic skills listed above has been accomplished. Early in your training I would prefer to see all effort directed toward competency in the core skills that I listed. I think the best approach is to model our training to match what we see occurring over and over again in the field, rather than hope what happens in the real world mirrors what we like to do on the range.

 

[hog slayer]

Fantastic post, Mr. Givens. Truly, thank you for such effort.

 

[obijohn]

Tom is nothing but thorough, and most of the time spot on. When you look at how likely you would be to use your training, in the area which you operate, I would say first aid training would be more useful. It never hurts to revisit the basics. Also, the class that Coach and BBI will be putting on in April is very worth while. I think highly enough of the class that I am cancelling my class at the same venue on that day. I have taken the class, and will likely do so again.

 

[Never A Victim]

I feel like a chump for trying to post anythig after Tom Givens, but I will give it a shot.

When people ask me "where do I start" in regards to carrying a gun, I try to convey that it's a lifestyle of training and not just one type of training.

Here is a quick list I threw together in my head on what classes people should take (in order):
1. A class that teaches you how to FIGHT with the pistol that you plan to carry. (No NRA clases, no Well Armed Woman, etc)
2. Force on Force class. (Mindset Laboratory)
3. Trauma medical training. (Immediate Action Medical-Tactical Response)
4. Armed combatives training. (Shivworks ECQC or The Complete Combatant)
5. Legal training. (Lots of good people doing this kind of training, but I really liked Guy Relfords class)

 

[Coach]

I feel like a chump for trying to post anythig after Tom Givens, but I will give it a shot.

When people ask me "where do I start" in regards to carrying a gun, I try to convey that it's a lifestyle of training and not just one type of training.

Here is a quick list I threw together in my head on what classes people should take (in order):
1. A class that teaches you how to FIGHT with the pistol that you plan to carry. (No NRA clases, no Well Armed Woman, etc)
2. Force on Force class. (Mindset Laboratory)
3. Trauma medical training. (Immediate Action Medical-Tactical Response)
4. Armed combatives training. (Shivworks ECQC or The Complete Combatant)
5. Legal training. (Lots of good people doing this kind of training, but I really liked Guy Relfords class)

Does not read like the post of a chump. I suggest putting you number 5 to the top. But i have been wrong before.

 

[BehindBlueI's]

Does not read like the post of a chump. I suggest putting you number 5 to the top. But i have been wrong before.

I agree. If you don't know what you can do legally, not only will you get yourself hemmed up by acting outside the law but you're more likely to hesitate when you could have legally acted sooner. I've interviewed many people who've expressed that they could have defended themselves, or acted earlier, but weren't sure what "the line" was.

All the topics in the list are good ones, although I'd reorder them a bit. About the only thing I would add would be pre-attack indicators and some sort of conflict resolution/managing unknown contacts training. That could be rolled in with #4 on the list, but can also be separate.

Of course, this assumes the person already had a basic understanding of the fundamentals of gun handling and safety.

 

[Coach]

I agree. If you don't know what you can do legally, not only will you get yourself hemmed up by acting outside the law but you're more likely to hesitate when you could have legally acted sooner. I've interviewed many people who've expressed that they could have defended themselves, or acted earlier, but weren't sure what "the line" was.

All the topics in the list are good ones, although I'd reorder them a bit. About the only thing I would add would be pre-attack indicators and some sort of conflict resolution/managing unknown contacts training. That could be rolled in with #4 on the list, but can also be separate.

Of course, this assumes the person already had a basic understanding of the fundamentals of gun handling and safety.

I think the pre attack indicator training should be higher on the list as well as the legal. It puts the training in a better order that can be reinforced in other training such as Force on Force. How can one have situational awareness without knowing the pre-attack indicators. This carte blanche agreement makes me nervous. I had better say something mean about revolvers to bring balance back to the force.