Tactical Reloads: The Whens and Whys

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  • Vanguard.45

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    There is often a great deal of discussion/ training regarding the "HOWS" of Tactical Reloads, but rarely a thorough consideration of the "WHENS" and "WHYS" of tactical reloads. Of course, the whens and whys are often intimately connected when it comes to a gunfight scenario.

    I have often heard that tactical reloads should be done when there is some sort of "lull" in the gunfight. To be honest, I find this thinking questionable, unless one can tell me exactly when the other side will begin to re-engage and once again attempt to shoot me before I shoot them. There are no "time outs" allowed.

    From my perspective, the one necessity of tactical reloads is cover/ concealment, as one never wants to be out in the open with their jimmy swinging in the wind with a gun that is being "tactically" reloaded. There is nothing "tactical" about that at all, and if one is going to be performing a "tactical reload," one must not forget the "tactical" part of the maneuver.

    As to the whens/ whys, I believe there are only two times a tactical reload is indeed necessary/ advisable. First, before I move myself from one place of cover to a more advantageous place of cover, I want to make sure I have a fully loaded weapon so I can, if necessary, put rounds toward the bad man in order to keep their heads down (especially if I have no one else to offer me covering fire while I am moving place to place). And second, if a colleague is needing to move from cover to cover, I want to top off my weapon before giving them the go-ahead to move (see "jimmy swinging in the wind" above).

    I hope this gives some clarification, at least from my perspective, as to the possible rationally justifiable uses for a tactical reload. Feel free to share your thoughts.

    And one more thing: As to the "HOW" of the maneuver, I find it much nicer to have the magazine just drop to the floor and get the gun reloaded as quickly as possible rather than trying to retain one and hold two mags in one hand while trying to insert the fresh mag. It takes longer and the longer I have an unloaded weapon, the more danger I am in. Once my gun is back to full capacity, I can just pick up the magazine I dropped with the couple of rounds in it and then put it in my pocket/ pouch. And I can do this knowing I have a fully loaded weapon in my hand.

    Vanguard.45
     

    Coach

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    What is tactical about dropping the mag on the ground and picking it up? What if you are standing in hip deep water? What if there is a foot of snow on the ground? Your method will not work very well.

    What if the lull is after I shoot the threat off his feet and I am scanning for more threats. If I drop the mag to the ground and the second threat hears that he/she knows I am either empty or have only one round. If I retain the mag in the hand I am not sending a loud announcement that I am empty.

    Also if a "tactical reload" is performed correctly the new mag goes out and is immediately into the gun. SHO shooting is possible very quickly if needed.
     

    ATM

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    ...Once my gun is back to full capacity, I can just pick up the magazine I dropped with the couple of rounds in it and then put it in my pocket/ pouch...

    Good luck. ;)

    TP_TAC_Ironman-Gear-354x200.jpg
     

    Vigilant

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    I've actually never really thought about it, I "always" retained my mags on a tac reload, until I took Shay's FoF. Then all that training went to ****, I was dropping mags, not racking slides, etc. Now I practice retention and covering the basics, like making sure my reload is actually complete before moving on! To add, when "it" happens, I'm moving, moving to cover or concealment, or at the very least, away from the threat, but moving. If in that move, I can reload, I will, moving targets are harder to hit than stationary ones. I'm don't trust being able to count rounds, so if I can, I'm topping off as soon as possible. Since Uncle Sugar doesn't pay for my mags any longer, I keep'em as much as possible.
     

    GIJEW

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    I think any reloading method relevant to gun fighting is "tactical reloading", and think there are two sub categories of tactical reloads:

    emergency/speed reloads and reloads with retention.

    We're in agreement about the reasons for a reload with retention and that cover is a requirement.

    I strongly disagree with you about just dropping the mag, even though that's faster than retaining it, because:

    1)The secondary purpose of a reload with retention/"tactical reload" is to KEEP the ammo in the partly empty mag. We're probably going to be alone with a limited supply of ammo.
    2)Like Coach said, that mag can get lost. At least, when you go to pick it up you'll need to search a little for it since it will drop-bounce-and-roll. Nothing tactical about taking your eyes off the enemy.
    3)About the concern with handling 2 mags simultaneously under stress, you don't need to do a speed reload and just drop the partial mag in order to avoid handling 2 magazines at the same time. Removing and pocketing the partial mag and then drawing a full mag--like in a speed reload--is not much slower. As for the extra second, you're reloading behind cover
     

    Vanguard.45

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    I think any reloading method relevant to gun fighting is "tactical reloading", and think there are two sub categories of tactical reloads:

    emergency/speed reloads and reloads with retention.

    We're in agreement about the reasons for a reload with retention and that cover is a requirement.

    I strongly disagree with you about just dropping the mag, even though that's faster than retaining it, because:

    1)The secondary purpose of a reload with retention/"tactical reload" is to KEEP the ammo in the partly empty mag. We're probably going to be alone with a limited supply of ammo.
    2)Like Coach said, that mag can get lost. At least, when you go to pick it up you'll need to search a little for it since it will drop-bounce-and-roll. Nothing tactical about taking your eyes off the enemy.
    3)About the concern with handling 2 mags simultaneously under stress, you don't need to do a speed reload and just drop the partial mag in order to avoid handling 2 magazines at the same time. Removing and pocketing the partial mag and then drawing a full mag--like in a speed reload--is not much slower. As for the extra second, you're reloading behind cover

    The longer you are walking around with a one shot pistol, the more danger you are in of needing more shots than you have at that moment. By simplifying the reload to dropping the mag and inserting the fresh one, the less you rely on reduced complex/ fine motor skills in the process. Again, I would rather stoop down to pick up the partially loaded mag and worry about retaining it AFTER I have a fully loaded weapon in my hand. YMMV.
     

    hog slayer

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    I have to figure out how to attach other threads to a response. There are a couple really informative, well thought out and thought provoking threads that would have you question just what you may be walking around doing. You very well may wish to dial 911 and reholstered your piece so the police man doesn't shoot you in error. Gunfights in the desert don't really last that long, either. I think that the scenarios envisioned that drive this "drop mag/ only have one bullet"mindset are not entirely realistic. Get your brain working again after the tussle, put more bullets in your bang stick and call 911. How many rounds does a gunfighter need in today's streets?
     

    NIFT

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    Curious:
    Can anyone cite (with reference) a lethal force encounter with only one intended victim in which he performed either a tactical reload or reload with retention during the fight?
     

    MohawkSlim

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    Tactical means using tactics. THINKING about what you're doing. If you're doing it right, you're thinking about the best time to top off during your particular incident. I know it's hard to simulate in training but there needs to be that break in the reactionary process and a conscious thought of, "Is now a good and safe time to top off?"

    If you're just bang, bang, duck, tac reload, ok go, you're setting yourself up for that to be your response and the life & death defensive encounter you have in real life may be different - and that could cost you your life.

    Plus, if you're topping off before suppressive fire you're leaving yourself right back in the situation you were just in. A gun with ?????? rounds left in the mag. Sure, you're probably closer to the middle of the mag than the bottom but you may need to top off again. It may be better to shoot until empty then top off. May be better not to shoot at all.

    The point is you need to think and evaluate based on the situation, not necessarily "train to do it this way each time." We should all be good with doing speed reloads on demand but that tac reload should have a slight pause in there somewhere so we can apply some tactics to what we're doing.


    Curious:
    Can anyone cite (with reference) a lethal force encounter with only one intended victim in which he performed either a tactical reload or reload with retention during the fight?
    I've posed this question numerous times with my, "You MUST carry a spare mag" friends and nobody seems to be able to do so. (There are a few LE encounters but not a single Joe Civilian story I'm aware of.)

    I look at mag swaps (of any type) as more SHTF type shooting. Sure, we need to know how to do it but it's not rocket surgery and the vast majority of us would be better off spending time doing cardio than anything at all on the gun range.
     

    hog slayer

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    I've posed this question numerous times with my, "You MUST carry a spare mag" friends and nobody seems to be able to do so. (There are a few LE encounters but not a single Joe Civilian story I'm aware of.)

    I look at mag swaps (of any type) as more SHTF type shooting. Sure, we need to know how to do it but it's not rocket surgery and the vast majority of us would be better off spending time doing cardio than anything at all on the gun range.[/QUOTE]

    You and I think much alike on this. I read an article that was very compelling, but talked about needing not just a self defense weapon, but an anti terrorism weapon. While it really had me questioning myself for a few days, it just isn't enough.

    One mind, any weapon
     

    Lelliott8

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    Put more bullets in your gun during such time as you aren't going to get shot in the face while you do it. Since you have already fired shots from your gun, you won't have to worry about your little magazine hitting the ground "announcing" what you're doing. By the time your old mag hits the ground, you're almost reloaded anyway, right? People make this way too complicated. Just learn to fight, don't learn to do a bunch of little things. The rest falls in place nicely when you have a grounded philosophy in fighting.
     

    lovemachine

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    Carrying a spare magazine is much easier than carrying a gun. It's just as easy to carry a spare magazine like your knife or flashlight is.

    So my question is, why NOT carry a spare magazine? You already carry a gun in case you need it. Why not carry a spare magazine, which is quite easy to do, just in case you need it?

    If you want to go by statistics, chances are you'll never need your gun. But will you stop carrying altogether? Of course not.
    Just cause the statistics say you'll never need that spare magazine, doesn't mean you shouldn't carry one.
     

    hog slayer

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    Carrying a spare magazine is much easier than carrying a gun. It's just as easy to carry a spare magazine like your knife or flashlight is.

    So my question is, why NOT carry a spare magazine? You already carry a gun in case you need it. Why not carry a spare magazine, which is quite easy to do, just in case you need it?

    If you want to go by statistics, chances are you'll never need your gun. But will you stop carrying altogether? Of course not.
    Just cause the statistics say you'll never need that spare magazine, doesn't mean you shouldn't carry one.


    I don't think anyone is truly questioning the carry of an extra magazine. Rather, why put so much effort into exactly HOW you perform a reload. The probability of actually performing a reload in a REALISTIC scenario is very low. It's why BBI is a proponent of revolvers. His research has not shown the need for much more than a 5 shot revolver provides. The article attached by Cedartop is fantastic! I have long enjoyed ASP's videos. They have also driven much of my way of thinking and habits. (FIBS is a wonderful acronym that I will utilize extensively. If nothing else, that made the read worth while) I don't specifically need to know when to perform a tactical reload vs any other named reload. I need to know how to draw the piece from my method of carry and get big enough rounds on target center mass quickly (FIBS) while moving. When and if one reloads, things will probably have calmed down which brings us to the "proactive reload" (point #2).
     

    NIFT

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    quote_icon.png
    Originally Posted by NIFT

    Curious:
    Can anyone cite (with reference) a lethal force encounter with only one intended victim in which he performed either a tactical reload or reload with retention during the fight?


    http://rangemaster.com/wp-content/uploads/2017/02/2017-02_RFTS-Newsletter.pdf

    For some reason I can't get the snippet to copy and paste. Page 3, number 2.

    I read the article "Lessons from 5,000 Gunfights," and the author says, "I have seen precisely 2 reloads in a real gunfight that weren't on-duty LEO. And neither of those affected the outcome of the fight." The author did not reference or identify either of the fights he mentioned, and he said nothing identifying those two reloads as either tactical or retention. While the author does not elaborate, I suspect those reloads were after all the shooting ended.

    I will continue to teach both the tactical and retention reloads, while reminding students of their insignificance in lethal force encounters. That said, I can think of three instances (there may, well, be others) where a tactical/retention reload has value.

    1. Loading from empty, replacing the first magazine with a full one.
    2. "Topping off" on a hot range before re-holstering.
    3. Being required to do tactical/retention reloads in a course of fire in a match.
    Numbers 1 and 2 can both be done as administrative reloads (gun in holster) which eliminates any possibility of an ND in the reload.

    I am, still, looking for an example, with reference, in which there was only one intended victim, and he employed a tactical/retention reload during the fight.
     
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    Woobie

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    All this terminology and complicated hand-wringing.

    If someone is shooting at you, get the gun back in the fight. Yesterday.

    If no one is shooting at you, top your gun off and stick the half empty mag in your pocket.
     

    cedartop

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    quote_icon.png
    Originally Posted by NIFT

    Curious:
    Can anyone cite (with reference) a lethal force encounter with only one intended victim in which he performed either a tactical reload or reload with retention during the fight?




    I read the article "Lessons from 5,000 Gunfights," and the author says, "I have seen precisely 2 reloads in a real gunfight that weren't on-duty LEO. And neither of those affected the outcome of the fight." The author did not reference or identify either of the fights he mentioned, and he said nothing identifying those two reloads as either tactical or retention. While the author does not elaborate, I suspect those reloads were after all the shooting ended.

    I will continue to teach both the tactical and retention reloads, while reminding students of their insignificance in lethal force encounters. That said, I can think of three instances (there may, well, be others) where a tactical/retention reload has value.

    1. Loading from empty, replacing the first magazine with a full one.
    2. "Topping off" on a hot range before re-holstering.
    3. Being required to do tactical/retention reloads in a course of fire in a match.
    Numbers 1 and 2 can both be done as administrative reloads (gun in holster) which eliminates any possibility of an ND in the reload.

    I am, still, looking for an example, with reference, in which there was only one intended victim, and he employed a tactical/retention reload during the fight.

    Bob I am sure if you contacted John he would give you that information if he has it.

    Personally I don't have much use for a reload with retention unless done as part of an administrative process as you describe. People can do what they want though. As long as it is done safely and is somewhat relevant I am just happy to see them train.
     

    Lelliott8

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    NIFT said:
    Curious:
    Can anyone cite (with reference) a lethal force encounter with only one intended victim in which he performed either a tactical reload or reload with retention during the fight?

    https://activeselfprotection.com/carjackers-overwhelmed-by-prepared-victims/



    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6uvbTU4ht3E

    Grainy video violence warning!


    The first video is a guy that really needed to reload and finally did it ages after he needed it. The second video shows a civilian or off-duty officer possibly performing a "tactical" reload. The commentator mentions it at 3:21. Reloads happen and are sometimes necessary. You can't count on having enough bullets because you don't know how many you will need. That's why a lot of people carry as many as they reasonably can. Why not?
     
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