Combat pistol accuracy poll

[JimFloyd]

Ok... my from a medical perspective...

I agree that 7 yards is an appropriate personal protection distance as most defensive uses will be within 7-12 feet at the most.

In regards to groups, being able to shoot tight groups is great and should be a part of training. However, from a "shooting to cease further aggression" viewpoint, a larger group would be better for defensive purposes. My rationale is that if you put a nice tight 2" group in the chest you may only impact one organ and thus not cause cessation of aggression as quickly as if your group is larger and thus impacts multiple organs.

IMHO, if a person can put a number of hits in the center section of a standard paper plate at 7 yards that would be accurate and effective fire under stress conditions (hold a paper plate over the center of your breastbone and you will get an appreciation for this).

Here is a series of postings I put on INGO a few months ago with anatomical illustrations which goes to my point if anyone is interested:

http://ingunowners.com/forums/tactics_and_training/28173-can_you_out_draw_yourself-6.html#post314051

http://ingunowners.com/forums/tactics_and_training/28173-can_you_out_draw_yourself-6.html#post314134

http://ingunowners.com/forums/tactics_and_training/28173-can_you_out_draw_yourself-7.html#post314185

But, that's just my opinion... I could be wrong!

Regards,

Jim

[NIFT]

Originally Posted by JimFloyd

IMHO, if a person can put a number of hits in the center section of a standard paper plate at 7 yards that would be accurate and effective fire under stress conditions (hold a paper plate over the center of your breastbone and you will get an appreciation for this).

Jim

I agree with Jim completely, and I use standard nine-inch paper plates with the five-inch center circle outined with a Sharpie marker both for my own shooting and for my students.

If all your shots are consistently well within the five-inch circle, speed up your shooting until some shots are falling outside the center circle but still on the paper plate. If quite a few shots are missing the paper plate entirely, slow down until they are all on the plate with some in the center circle. That is a pretty good protocol for defensive accuracy.

Bob Aldridge, NRA Certified Firearms Instructor and Range Safety Officer
Fort Wayne
260-459-2382

[captpaul]

I like to put 3/4" colored dots stickers on targets. Small index cards are also fun to shoot groups on. Try to keep all shots on the card as you step back each shot.

[TheAutomator]

While hitting more than one organ is good in theory, you should be laser freakin' precise in practice. Accuracy in a real gunfight is paramount, as you are responsible for every bullet that comes out of your barrel. No one here should advocate large groups on target during real CCW practice, as that can lead to unsafe shooting in real world scenarios. Remember, shooting when your hands are trembling due to a large dump of adrenaline with innocents running around in your background will not be easy.

[WETSU]

7 yards, slow fire? 15 rounds into one 9mm sized hole. Aim small, miss small.

Until I achieve this, I am not "good enough". I am always striving.

[NIFT]

There is nothing inherenly wrong with very tight (same hole or ragged hole) groups, but that kind of accuracy requires both the shooter and the target to be motionless, which just ain't gonna happen in a deadly force encounter.

I have never been in a gunfight, hope I never am, and do everything in my power to avoid such, but, until it happens, I really don't know how good I would be. Who knows, I might not be able to be accurate enough to throw a bar of soap into a swimming pool!

Will accuracy decrease in a deadly force encounter? Almost assuredly and, likely, substantially. However, I do not believe concentrating on pin-point accuracy in a motionless range setting will do much in preparation for a deadly force encounter, if anything at all.
Force-on-force scenarios using simunition or airsoft appear to be the most realistic training, but few people can avail themselves of regular force-on-force training and practice.

Consequently, for range training with static targets, nine-inch paper plates with five-inch center circles, although limited, still work well.

Move, shoot, reload, go to cover, shoot, move, shoot some more, scream commands, change hands, shoot some more, transition to long gun, move, shoot some more, etc., etc., etc.. If you can keep all shots on nine-inch paper plates, with a large portion in the five-inch circle, that is a good protocol for static range training.

Just my opinion.

[HandK49031]

As a rule of thumb any thing you can cover with one hand at seven yards would be considered combat efective. most people can shoot that or better at a slow fire.

[cosermann]

Originally Posted by JimFloyd

Here is a series of postings I put on INGO a few months ago with anatomical illustrations which goes to my point if anyone is interested:

http://ingunowners.com/forums/tactics_and_training/28173-can_you_out_draw_yourself-6.html#post314051

http://ingunowners.com/forums/tactics_and_training/28173-can_you_out_draw_yourself-6.html#post314134

http://ingunowners.com/forums/tactics_and_training/28173-can_you_out_draw_yourself-7.html#post314185

Has that thread been deleted? I can't find it.

[rvb]

Originally Posted by NHT3

What do you consider good slow fire accuracy with a combat type pistol at 7 yards?

7 yds slow fire? 3/4" to 1" at a max. Any decent pistol should be mechanically capable of that, most much better.

You cannot expect to shoot accurate quickly unless you can shoot accurate slowly.

-rvb

[slow1911s]

Under 2" should be a goal. My goal is bullet holes touching.

Rapid fire? 4", which also happens to be the size of an X-ring on a NRA D1 (Bianchi).