Hands vs. Guns - Gabe Suarez

[esrice]

Another email . . . . .
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HANDS VERSUS GUNS - Keeping the Gun From Entering The Fight


When we work the Zero To Five Feet material we place guys, in their CCW kit, facing an adversary (later more than one adversary) who is also armed. We give the "bad guy" instructions to draw and shoot the other man when he thinks he can pull it off. Distance is within arm's reach.

Now before I continue, I want to address those "holier than thou" shootists who may be reading this who will say they never allow anyone to get that close to them, and that their spider-senses are always on deep orange, and stupid things like that. You let people of unknown intentions that close to you on a daily basis unless you live on a deserted island. And to the same crowd who will say, "Oh...I will just speed rock him", I will invite you to come and show us how you will do that without getting shot as well. This is not the shooting range so stop fooling yourself and looking like a range fool to everyone else.

Now...back to regular business. The material is offered in a layered approach where you can opt for the first layer and then branch to a different response. For example, the first layer would be to jam his draw with your hand closes to his gun. A follow up may be to reposition to his flank, or to push him into oncoming traffic, or to draw you knife, or to draw your pistol, etc.



Primary consideration here is to simply jam the draw. Where ever you see your adversary's hand move to on the waist band area, jam it with the closest hand to that spot. This is easy to do and can be learned without much effort. By jamming I do not mean some limp wristed love tap on his gun hand, but rather a forcefull attack and jamming action that drives the gun back into his holster and unbalanced him backward slightly. This will momentarily keep his weapon from coming into the fight. However, this alone is not sufficient to end the fight.



The next consideration should be positioning. If you stay there at his front with no additional considerations, he will eventually recover and draw and shoot. So repositioning is important. You can reposition yourself, or reposition the adversary via your push and jam, or you can do both things. The results should be that you are on his flanks, slightly to the rear. At this point there are many things you can do if you wish. You still do not physicaly controll him so you must understand that he may spin and orient his now deployed pistol at you. At this point you might be able to draw and shoot him. You might be able to push him into oncoming traffic as one student of ours did (there is no stopping power like that yielded by a bus). Or you might elect to continue to the next layer.


Securing the holstered weapon is the next consideration. The initial jam/grab, may have been good or tenuous. If the choice is to continue deeper into the subsequent layers, staqbilizing your grab may be a good thing to do. Understand also that how and when you disengage from this will not necessaqrily be your choice like it is on the clinical and sterile shooting range. Much of what you do here will be circumstantial.

In working this material several times at our training room with Mark Denny and Cold War Scout, we found the best way to solidify your grip is to run your free hand across his back and through the adversary's bent elbow to join your initial jamming move. There are various reasons why this method was chosen that we elaborate on in the class and on the upcoming DVD. In any case, you now have a solid hold on the bad guy's holstered weapon, and are in the best position to keep from getting shot. Use this time to reestablish initial grip, making it stronger, digging in with nails and claw fingers.





The next point is to pin the adversary and immobilize him further. You can pin him against a vertical wall, a parked vehicle, or whatever. Use your environment against him. If all else fails and there is nothing available, drop him face down onto the ground. This may not be available to you if your adversary is bigger than you are but then again, things are circumstantial.

Once pinned in whatever form is available, extract your initial hand...your shooting hand, draw your pistol and shoot the magazine into him..whatever part of him is available. That should solve the problem. Once you have the understanding of concept, try it against strong side draws, crossdraws, appendix draws, left handed and right handed draws, and every possible combination.

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Gabe Suarez

One Source Tactical
Suarez International USA

[MTC]

Now before I continue, I want to address those "holier than thou" shootists who may be reading this who will say they never allow anyone to get that close to them, and that their spider-senses are always on deep orange, and stupid things like that. You let people of unknown intentions that close to you on a daily basis unless you live on a deserted island. And to the same crowd who will say, "Oh...I will just speed rock him", I will invite you to come and show us how you will do that without getting shot as well. This is not the shooting range so stop fooling yourself and looking like a range fool to everyone else.

Outstanding!

In before they show up.

[Joe Williams]

I'm not wrestling with anyone, or trying to "jam" the draw. At 5'6", that's a losing proposition for me against most men. A weak hand shot to the throat, side kick to the knees, a shot to the groin, all are at the very least distracting, hopefully enough for me to be able to draw. There's also the good old fashioned technique of jumping on him and biting an ear or the nose off.

But I'm just quibbling about specific tactics. This is one of his emails I actually agree with. At "grocery store line" ranges, trying to outdraw an armed opponent isn't likely to be a high percentage move.

Edit: I DO like the "push them in front of a bus" school of martial arts he talks about

[Indecision]

Originally Posted by Joe Williams

Edit: I DO like the "push them in front of a bus" school of martial arts he talks about

Whatever works.

[Disposable Heart]

Really interesting stuff! We often forget the world isn't a stand at exactly 7 yards, draw and fire method of fighting. Its close up, horrible and grabby.

What I think is a very good attention to detail (or coincidence) is that the way I would expect hoodlums to carry their guns is "mexican" style. I dont think criminals with guns would be selecting holsters or focusing on carry method. They would most likely do what they either saw on TV or in rap videos. VERY similar to Gabe's mantra of appendix carry. Similar places, we can train with others that subscribe to Suarez's carry method and not be without experience on the street.

[HICKMAN]

great post

[HD_darla]

i'm sure this is another newby question but thats what i'm best at ha, but are there places that teach stuff like this around locally (locally as in southern indiana)

[esrice]

Originally Posted by HD_darla

i'm sure this is another newby question but thats what i'm best at ha, but are there places that teach stuff like this around locally (locally as in southern indiana)

Yes.

Tactical Response just held a Force-on-Force class in Seymour a week or so ago.

http://ingunowners.com/forums/tactic..._response.html

mercop teaches methods such as this in his pistol courses. He's having a class this weekend in Indy.

http://ingunowners.com/forums/tactic...2009_ecpr.html


Keep an eye on the Tactics & Training forum for all kinds of opportunities.

[HD_darla]

sweet thanks

[varasha]

My favorite advice for self defense....SA (situational awareness) and cardio. Identify early and run like hell.. I am a property manager and i have been chased with bats and knives (no guns yet thank god) even when i have my pistol, i still run, because being fast can usually save your butt. Most bad guys shoot for crap anyway, if i can get 15-20 yards away, i think i will be safe..