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| | #1 (permalink) | |
| BOFH ![]() | OODA Loop & Combat Mindset First off I'd like to thank Tom Perroni from PTTA for allowing me to re-post this information. I can take no credit what so ever for this information, outside of finding it, and bringing it here for you. Now, on to the good stuff. This is long, and 100% worth reading. Quote:
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| | #2 (permalink) |
| Patriot, Pater, Plinker ![]() Join Date: Mar 2008 Location: Terre Haute
Posts: 758
![]() ![]() | your posts on the ooda loop should help all understand the process. once we have an understanding, we can attempt to figure out how to "get inside" our adversaries loop and disrupt it. there in lies the key to successfully negotiating a positive outcome to a "situation".
__________________ NRA Patron Member NRA Certified Instructor USPSA NROI Adaptive Consulting & Training To prevail...you must ACT! www.adaptiveconsultingandtraining.com Wabash Valley Practical Pistol Shooters Riley Conservation Club |
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| | #3 (permalink) |
| Certified Cheesehead Importer ![]() Join Date: Mar 2008 Location: Next to W9ZEB
Posts: 2,314
![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() | I think all these articles on the OODA loop that Lars (and now Shay) are posting for us really drive home the importance of not just getting quality training, but also the importance of force-on-force training. Lars and I were discussing these articles on the way home from work, as well as FoF training, and I made the comment that I wasn't ready for that. Not just from a skill level (I'll own up to the fact that I don't spend as much time practicing as I should), but from a mindset level, too. I'm getting there. To use this article as a reference, I can say with confidence that this time last year I was pretty much in condition white all the time. I'd like to say I'm always in yellow now, but I know I have my moments when I slip back into my sheep stage. Anyway.. my point. You can be great at drawing your gun. You can be great at hammering nails with your 9mm at 50 feet. How do you react to the stress of an attacker at 6 feet?
__________________ "Some of the findings are perhaps contrary to popular perceptions; for example, over the 5-year study period [2000-2004], the use of knives/cutting instruments was over three times more prevalent than the use of a gun. (Based on Table 8.)" http://www.fbi.gov/ucr/schoolviolenc...troduction.htm |
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| | #5 (permalink) |
| Patriot, Pater, Plinker ![]() Join Date: Mar 2008 Location: Terre Haute
Posts: 758
![]() ![]() | we are all ready. the ooda loop is not an invention, it is an observation of normal, instinctive behavior. it has merely been codified so we can study and learn to work within that behavior. if we train to defend ourselves in a manner consistent with our instinctive behavior, no truly new behavior is needed, just honed to utilize the tools we have available today. we also study the ooda loop in order to develop tools and technique to disrupt the loop of our opponent allowing us to prevail.
__________________ NRA Patron Member NRA Certified Instructor USPSA NROI Adaptive Consulting & Training To prevail...you must ACT! www.adaptiveconsultingandtraining.com Wabash Valley Practical Pistol Shooters Riley Conservation Club |
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| | #6 (permalink) |
| Somewhat Purple-ish Join Date: Mar 2008 Location: Indiana
Posts: 2,110
![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() | I think someone has to believe they are ready before they are to engage in any well-conceived force-on-force scenarios. I'm not talking about any kind of weapons-related skills, or any kind of understanding of OODA loops or decision making. I'm talking about being emotionally ready to invest themselves (at least during the scenarios) fully into the scenario. That includes both being able to handle what happens as well as being willing to full invest themselves into their role(s). I've seen people break down in tears after scenarios. That's not a sign that someone wasn't ready, but it's indicative of the amount of stress that is induced. Some people (and at risk of being sexist, mostly women) will need some kind of emotional release either during or after such experiences, especially when they are doing it for the first time and are not prepared for the effects of the induced stresses. If someone thinks they are not ready, then they might not be. I would, however, suggest that such a declaration should be an informed decision based on exactly what is planned for a given scenario. In some cases, someone may very well be ready, but not believe so because they don't really understand what is going to happen (or might happen). Once much of that is explained, the anxiety of the unknown is lessened. Some people are ready for force-on-force before they ever learn anything about "real" weapons. Some need the innoculation of the weapons instruction and practice to get them to a point where they can accept the kind of decisions they need to make. Some will never be ready, but those are also probably the kind of people who will not prevail in a life-threatening encounter unless and until they are able to make some changes in their emotional and psychological status.
__________________ Adaptive Consulting & Training To prevail you must ACT! www.adaptiveconsultingandtraining.com Wabash Valley Practical Pistol Shooters www.wvpps.com Riley Conservation Club www.rileycc.com "The people shall have a right to bear arms, for the defense of themselves and the State." INDIANA CONSTITUTION Article 1 - Bill of Rights - Section 32 |
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| | #7 (permalink) |
| Patriot, Pater, Plinker ![]() Join Date: Mar 2008 Location: Terre Haute
Posts: 758
![]() ![]() | though rhino makes a great point, and i defer to his experience in this regard, i stand by my statement that we are all ready. it is a matter of degree perhaps, but we have all experience some degree of force on force since we began to socialize. think back to your childhood. think back to your school days. not perhaps force on force as stated here, but we all have the "basic" training. call it life if you will. jmho.
__________________ NRA Patron Member NRA Certified Instructor USPSA NROI Adaptive Consulting & Training To prevail...you must ACT! www.adaptiveconsultingandtraining.com Wabash Valley Practical Pistol Shooters Riley Conservation Club |
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| | #8 (permalink) |
| Somewhat Purple-ish Join Date: Mar 2008 Location: Indiana
Posts: 2,110
![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() | That's probably a lot more true for when dodgeball was allowed, kids picked their own teams, and called their own fouls. Things aren't like that anymore, and the number of people who have been sheltered (including by their own choice) from any kind of confrontational/adversarial activity is a lot higher and growing. There have always been people who do not react well to those things. Those are the people who need different handling to guide them to a place when they will gain benefit from force-on-force scenarios. Sure, it's not going to kill anyone, but I can find a number of people that if we put them through an intense scenario one time, they will never, ever do it (or go shooting) again and will probably make them even less able to effectively defend themselves. Again, being "ready" for this kind of thing has little (if anything) to do with weapon skills. You can't force people through their personal emotional and psychological adjustment. You can guide and accomodate and suggest and most will probably get to where they need to be eventually. Identifying them isn't tough. When those people self-identify, it's called a "clue."
__________________ Adaptive Consulting & Training To prevail you must ACT! www.adaptiveconsultingandtraining.com Wabash Valley Practical Pistol Shooters www.wvpps.com Riley Conservation Club www.rileycc.com "The people shall have a right to bear arms, for the defense of themselves and the State." INDIANA CONSTITUTION Article 1 - Bill of Rights - Section 32 |
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| | #9 (permalink) | |
| Certified Cheesehead Importer ![]() Join Date: Mar 2008 Location: Next to W9ZEB
Posts: 2,314
![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() | Quote:
![]() Even though I can't shoot anywhere close to a dime-sized group yet, that wouldn't stop me from taking an FoF class. It's the fact that my body does not react well to stressful situations (not just from the emotional release [crying] aspect, but I have some medical considerations as well). Until I can feel confident that I can handle the kind of stress I expect from reading class descriptions and from experiences shared with me by other people without worrying about my medical issues, I am not ready. (Consider yourself clued.) ![]() I've made huge strides in being able to handle stressful situations (emotionally and physically) just in the last few months, and I'm continuing to build on that progress. Shay made a comment .. somewhere .. that regular physical activity induced stress will help that building process, and I think it has merit, so Lars and I are looking into that.
__________________ "Some of the findings are perhaps contrary to popular perceptions; for example, over the 5-year study period [2000-2004], the use of knives/cutting instruments was over three times more prevalent than the use of a gun. (Based on Table 8.)" http://www.fbi.gov/ucr/schoolviolenc...troduction.htm | |
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| | #10 (permalink) |
| Somewhat Purple-ish Join Date: Mar 2008 Location: Indiana
Posts: 2,110
![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() | Brava, for you!
__________________ Adaptive Consulting & Training To prevail you must ACT! www.adaptiveconsultingandtraining.com Wabash Valley Practical Pistol Shooters www.wvpps.com Riley Conservation Club www.rileycc.com "The people shall have a right to bear arms, for the defense of themselves and the State." INDIANA CONSTITUTION Article 1 - Bill of Rights - Section 32 |
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