TDI Training Discussed at ARFCOM.

[Rotor Talker]

Yes, I have, and none even came close to the TDI experience.

Just for the record, besides NRA basic Rifle, Pistol and Range Safety Officer classes, I have attended two Gunsite 150 classes one at NRA HQ, the other at Boone Co. Sheriff's dept. I take Tom Dresner's HK MP5 and Pistol class every year, so far have attended three of them. And this year I started attending classes from Guy Minnis from Evansville, his school is known as Hard Target Training.

In addition I have been and EMT for 30 years, not that EMS classes include firing, but they are designed as supplemental educational programs in addition to basic training.

I felt the TDI environment was not going to contribute to my learning, and I had concerns about their safety as well. So far it seems to have worked for them, I hope it continues and they don't have an accident there.

Bottom line is TDI did not work for me, for others it might.

[rhino]

I've wanted to go to TDI for a while, mostly because of recommendations by people whose opinions I value.

However, the reason why I have not done so to date is exactly the theme of this topic. I've read the rationalizations of the practices at TDI, and none of them adequately justify (to me) pointing real guns at people, regardless of whether it's the students pointing at instructors or the other way around. It is unacceptable to me.

I would have walked out the first time someone intentionally pointed a gun at me, regardless of how many times it was checked to verify it was unloaded. There does not exist an adequate reason for doing that in that type of class, and "getting over pointing guns at people" doesn't even come close.

Now, why didn't the other students complain? I wasn't there and I can't speak for them, but I know how pack mentality works. I have no doubt whatsoever that a significant number of the other students had the same reaction, but they lacked the assertiveness to do anything about it. Too many people (especially males) don't want to seem weak in front of the others. Too many are willing to accept things they know are wrong just because the instructor is the one doing it, so it must be okay.

I don't really care if someone thinks I'm a big pu**y, but I don't like people pointing guns at me or in my direction, whether they are unloaded or not. The alleged benefits presented on numerous occasions are pathetically weak justification in my opinion, and none come close to offsetting the inherent risks.

I'll go ahead and live in my fraidy-cat world of irrational fears. I'll live with the fact that I need to "get over pointing a gun at someone." I'm not going anywhere that I know does things like that, and if it happens in some class where I am a student, I'm finished. It's definitely not going to happen in any classes I teach or help teach and I will continue to not understand how otherwise rational, thinking people can conclude that pointing real guns at people is acceptable.

[Fenway]

Thank you for posting your experiences Rotor Talker!

Originally Posted by Rotor Talker

Yes, I have, and none even came close to the TDI experience.

[Rotor Talker]

Thanks Fenway, I appreciate it.

Rhino you are spot on accurate, exactly what I should have done, "Sheepleness" took over an I endured the rest of day one and day two before I regained common sense and reacted.

Mr. VanVlymen, it was not my intention to get you so angry, I just felt I should add my experience at TDI to the discussion.

I have read many positive reviews of TDI, in fact one of the doctors in the ER speaks very highly of Mr. Benner and his program, unfortunately my experience was less than satisfactory.

Thank You for the forum.

[shooter521]

Originally Posted by Rotor Talker

Mr. VanVlymen, it was not my intention to get you so angry

You know, I've never seen Shay angry, but I have a feeling it would be apparent to everybody if that was indeed the case!

[Rotor Talker]

Originally Posted by shooter521

You know, I've never seen Shay angry, but I have a feeling it would be apparent to everybody if that was indeed the case!

Mark, I have never met the man, so I don't know, I'm glad I was able to bring some humor into this discussion.

[shooter521]

Originally Posted by Rotor Talker

Mark, I have never met the man, so I don't know, I'm glad I was able to bring some humor into this discussion.

I've only met him on a couple of occasions, but if nothing else, his demeanor and conduct on this very board speaks volumes. My point was that I didn't read anything that could be construed as anger in his replies to you.

[rhino]

After reading through the topic on AR15.com (now locked), the thing that bothered me the most were the lengths to which some of the contributors went to defend what has been happening at TDI (and probably a few other places). That tells me a lot about those individuals.

Rotor Talker ... I can't fault you for not acting sooner. It can be incredibly difficult to assert one's self under those circumstances. I can say what I think I would do, but I've been lucky enough (or selective enough) to have avoided that kind of situation until now. I hope I do not let anything supercede what I know is right and wrong if I'm ever faced with the same.

I have an enormous amount of respect for the guy who started that topic as well as the way he conducted himself while it was still open. I hope his example sets a trend.

It's tough to be the guy who raises his voice about the "Emperor's New Clothes." Sometimes it has to be done.

[W9ZEB]

Roto Talker, I'm pretty sure Shay asked the question to get a feel for what you've seen/done before.

I've used the example before.... "Man this Ponderosa rib eye is the best steak ever" (when my only experience with steak prior to that is from Golden Coral.)

In this case you've effectively stated that you have eaten steak (or experienced private training) at a number of locations, and the steak at XYZ (or TDI in this case) is not the best you've had....

This is the same reason I keep asking people who review classes with Innovative Tactical Concepts where else they have trained. LE training and MIL training don't count. Knowing a lot about Hamburger does not make you a steak expert.

Thanks for your input Roto Talker. So far the discussion here is along the same lines as the discussion on ARFCOM....

• Some folks took TDI classes and thought the good outweighed the bad.
• Others wouldn't accept the bad and left early.
• Others still won't go because of their teaching practices.

[Rotor Talker]

Originally Posted by shooter521

I've only met him on a couple of occasions, but if nothing else, his demeanor and conduct on this very board speaks volumes. My point was that I didn't read anything that could be construed as anger in his replies to you.

Different people, different perspectives.

W9ZEB said it well, my mistake if I read too much into it.

I think this horse has been beaten to dust

Have a good one