training video found on youtube

indyninja · 07-29-2008

what do you think about being kind of "down range" with bullets flying

YouTube - Combative Application Techniques course...

shooter521 · 07-29-2008

Not a drill for beginner classes, maybe, but it certainly wouldn't bother me to run it. I'd make sure to wear my plates that day, though!

Bill of Rights · 07-29-2008

Quote:

Originally Posted by indyninja

what do you think about being kind of "down range" with bullets flying

YouTube - Combative Application Techniques course at FOP-St. Augustine

While it looks like the group in the rear is keeping things fairly on target, no, I don't want to be in front of someone with live ammo in the air.

Blessings,
B

Shay VanVlymen · 07-29-2008

Besides some differences in what I would teach, I didn't see anything in the video that bothered me.

indyjoe · 07-29-2008

I'd love to have an area with a 270 degree berm like that for setting up scenarios. That could be fun.

Tinman · 08-06-2008

Besides the award for the gayest accronym ever, got to go with Shay on this one. Dismissing the differences in technique or tactics they teach, and the goofiness of a few of their drills, I didn't see anything in there I would be uncomfortable with on the range.

Keep in mind, these are probably not drills I'd want to see on day one of the newbies intro to carbines class, but the shooters didn't really look at that level anyway.

covered movement, peels, Aussie peels, counter ambush and vehicle assault drills are pretty specialized. They have a definite place, even if they look a little unorthodox in terms of traditional range safety rules.

Ri22o · 08-06-2008

I think the main difference between this and what was discussed in the TDI thread is that these weapons are KNOWN to be live, there is no doubt. If put into this situation, in real life, it is very possible that someone would be shooting from your 4-5 o'clock. Let's just hope they have the ability to keep their sights off of you.

Tinman · 08-06-2008

The TDI thread is closed, so I will decline to continue that discussion here, although I had some thoughts, for another time I guess.

I agree this is a totally different situation. These "down range" drills have been a hot button debate for a while now. I think Hackathorn first kicked it up big time when he started doing his snake drill in level 1 and 2 classes.

Although I disagree with conducting such drills at a low level entry course, there is value in them. Some of that value is stress innoculation, some of that is simply focus for the task at hand. However, these should only be done once the class / student as a whole have proven their ability with proper muzzle control and trigger finger discipline.

Tinman....

indyninja · 08-07-2008

YouTube - Iraqi carbine training

Tinman · 08-07-2008

Yea, seen it before.

That one made the rounds a year or so back. Last rumor I heard was the instructor was using blanks, and the class was punking around so he turned up the heat to give them a little stress training.

Special circumstances call for secial training methods, wasn't there, can't say what the goal was here. I know the stuff that goes on in Iraq is pretty fast and furious when it does happen. guess this guy thought it warranted that level of stress innoculation.

I still say, a buttstroke to the insturctors temple early on would have made that drill much easier

Tinman....

07-29-2008	#4 (permalink)
Shay VanVlymen Mindset Join Date: Mar 2008 Location: Indy Posts: 323	Besides some differences in what I would teach, I didn't see anything in the video that bothered me. __________________ Your gun is not the weak link in your defense. You are. Training often and practice frequently.

07-29-2008	#5 (permalink)
indyjoe Not your average Joe Join Date: May 2008 Location: Indy Posts: 1,546	I'd love to have an area with a 270 degree berm like that for setting up scenarios. That could be fun. __________________ Appleseed Rifleman - 228 - I know what I am about.

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07-29-2008	#2 (permalink)
shooter521 Certified Glock Nut Join Date: May 2008 Location: Indianapolis, IN USA Posts: 636	Not a drill for beginner classes, maybe, but it certainly wouldn't bother me to run it. I'd make sure to wear my plates that day, though!

08-06-2008	#6 (permalink)
Tinman Coming to you live from parts unknown Join Date: Jun 2008 Location: North Central Indiana (Most of the time) Posts: 172	Besides the award for the gayest accronym ever, got to go with Shay on this one. Dismissing the differences in technique or tactics they teach, and the goofiness of a few of their drills, I didn't see anything in there I would be uncomfortable with on the range. Keep in mind, these are probably not drills I'd want to see on day one of the newbies intro to carbines class, but the shooters didn't really look at that level anyway. covered movement, peels, Aussie peels, counter ambush and vehicle assault drills are pretty specialized. They have a definite place, even if they look a little unorthodox in terms of traditional range safety rules.

08-06-2008	#7 (permalink)
Ri22o Modberator Join Date: Feb 2008 Location: Speedway Posts: 2,416	I think the main difference between this and what was discussed in the TDI thread is that these weapons are KNOWN to be live, there is no doubt. If put into this situation, in real life, it is very possible that someone would be shooting from your 4-5 o'clock. Let's just hope they have the ability to keep their sights off of you.

08-06-2008	#8 (permalink)
Tinman Coming to you live from parts unknown Join Date: Jun 2008 Location: North Central Indiana (Most of the time) Posts: 172	The TDI thread is closed, so I will decline to continue that discussion here, although I had some thoughts, for another time I guess. I agree this is a totally different situation. These "down range" drills have been a hot button debate for a while now. I think Hackathorn first kicked it up big time when he started doing his snake drill in level 1 and 2 classes. Although I disagree with conducting such drills at a low level entry course, there is value in them. Some of that value is stress innoculation, some of that is simply focus for the task at hand. However, these should only be done once the class / student as a whole have proven their ability with proper muzzle control and trigger finger discipline. Tinman....

08-07-2008	#10 (permalink)
Tinman Coming to you live from parts unknown Join Date: Jun 2008 Location: North Central Indiana (Most of the time) Posts: 172	Yea, seen it before. That one made the rounds a year or so back. Last rumor I heard was the instructor was using blanks, and the class was punking around so he turned up the heat to give them a little stress training. Special circumstances call for secial training methods, wasn't there, can't say what the goal was here. I know the stuff that goes on in Iraq is pretty fast and furious when it does happen. guess this guy thought it warranted that level of stress innoculation. I still say, a buttstroke to the insturctors temple early on would have made that drill much easier Tinman....