SOUTHNARC Armed Movement In Structures (A.M.I.S.) Course AAR

[Fenway]

Saw this review on AR15 and thought is was worth posting a link here

AR15.COM :: Forums :: AAR - SouthNarc Armed Movement In Structures (A.M.I.S.) Course, Syracuse NY

[Tinman]

Thanks for posting this, it was a great read.

A couple of thoughts for you all, if you get a chance to train with SouthNarc, DO IT. He is one of the top in this buisness.

Second, Just a training note, a lot of folks seem to think that because your a civilian, you don't need any of that tactical house clearing crap. That can't be further from the truth. Anytime there may be a chance of you being involved in a situation indoors, there is a chance you will have to "clear" your way back out to escape. Not to mention the issues associated with home defense. To me, this is a very overlooked aspect of training.

Once again thanks for the link, just wish I was in country to attend.

Tinman....

[W9ZEB]

As much as I'd love to take a class like that. I think I need a few more Fundamental classes. I am pretty certain I lack the proper tools to be successful there.

*Off to sears to buy a 287 piece tool set* This however is on my list of things I WILL do in the next year or three.

[shooter521]

SouthNarc offers an Extreme Close-Quarters Defensive Tactics package that I would really love to take. Most trainers regard "handgun distance" as 3 to 25 yards, but few offer any sort of training for the 0 to 5 FOOT realm, where the fight is most likely to start. And integrating empty hand and knife skills at this distance is a MUST, if only to allow us a means to create the time and distance needed to access our firearm.

SouthNarc PUC1, ECQC1, ECQC2 - KSCCW.com Forum

[Tinman]

We tried to host that class a couple of years ago, and didn't get enough takers to make it run. Guess we were just a little ahead of our time.

Tinman....

[shooter521]

Originally Posted by Tinman

We tried to host that class a couple of years ago, and didn't get enough takers to make it run.

That doesn't surprise me. Everybody thinks shooting at close range isn't challenging, and/or they don't want to get "beat up" in the DT part of it.

ITOG's Urban Conflict Resolution course kicked my ass, but was probably the most useful course I've ever taken, from the aspect of actually being applicable to the sort of fight an armed citizen might end up in. Running and gunning with the carbine is cool and draws the large classes, but may not have a lot of relevance to Normal Earth People.

[rhino]

An up-and-comer in the extreme close quarters field is Mike Brown of the US Shooting Academy in Tulsa, OK (I think Tinman knows him). They're doing some good things at that facility in a lot of different specialties.

I'm one of those people who avoids such classes. Anytime a mouthpiece and/or groin cup is required or recommended for a class, I eliminate it from my list. I recognize the utility, but I am averse to pain, contact with sweaty men, and being thrown on the ground. I did way too much of that stuff when I was young, which was enough to let me know I don't want to do it again. I'll take the risk of having that "gap" in my education.

[W9ZEB]

I fully intend to take a class of this nature. ECQC, and AMIS are both on my list. I'm not opposed to being beaten up during the learning process. I just don't think I have the toolbox necessary to qualify for these classes yet.

Shay, Tinman, Shooter521, Would you think Fighting Pistol, and Advanced Fighting Pistol (or similar classes from other sources) would get me up to speed? If not, what else should I put on my list of "Must have Pre-Reqs." before seriously looking at classes like these?

Thanks.

[shooter521]

Originally Posted by W9ZEB

Shay, Tinman, Shooter521, Would you think Fighting Pistol, and Advanced Fighting Pistol (or similar classes from other sources) would get me up to speed?

I have not taken any of SouthNarc's courses, so I can't speak from direct experience.

Based on the course descriptions and AARs, though, I would say that having some sort of defensive pistol course under your belt prior to taking either course would be a good idea, just so that you have a good skill foundation on which to build. You need to be able to draw/shoot/move competently and confidently before you worry about integrating empty-hand stuff, lights or other non-shooting aspects, else you risk information overload.

My

[Tinman]

I have taken SouthNarc's package, as well as worked with Mike Brown (he is doing some great stuff by the way looking forward to getting down to his place in February next year). As far as pre-reqs, you need to know the fundamentals of shooting. A good defensive pistol course is a great place to start. The issue I see is that so many people want to be super shooter before they even think about these types of classes. Often times, the things that work and are taught for ranged conflict do not translate well to the integrated close range environment.

Conversely, the things that do work at that tight range do seem to function just fine for longer range issues as well. I'll give you an example just to clarify a bit.

You attend a "shooting" course and they teach a really cool drawstroke, you pull the gun up, as soon as it clears leather you rotate the muzzle and start driving out towards the target as you run the gun up to your eye line. It arrives at full extension just as it reaches eye line for the shot. Obviously from a pure efficiency standpoint (shortest distance between two points is a straight line) this would be a good drawstoke. Unfortunately when the distances close, if you were to try and fire a shot from your holster top position, the shot would likely go too low (if it hit at all) to provide an effective result.

Conversely, you are taught a close range drawstroke that includes bringing the gun up fully to the upper extents of the vertical travel to pectoral index before extending. From this drawstroke we can still push out to full extension for a longer range shot, but we can also release effective rounds from a much earlier point in our drawstoke if the range deems that appropriate.

Obviously, this is an extreme example. I don’t think too many people still teach the clear leather and drive up and out drawstoke, but you get the point. Classes like fighting pistol or other “fighting” oriented programs will better prepare you, but it’s best to get in early since there are some significant peculiarities of running in “close contact”.

AMIS is a different story. You need to have the fundamentals well established before you start wandering around looking for the bad guy with a gun. Your brain will be way too focused on everything else going on and if the fundamentals are not second nature, they will be gone when you need them.

There’s my 2 cents, hope it helps explain.

Tinman....