Knife training

[Revopop]

There's a ton of schools out there that are known for gun training, what about knife training? Any recommendations? Who's taken a training class, how'd it go? Is there anybody around Southern Indiana/Northern Kentucky that you'd recommend?

 

[jdhaines]

One of the schools I've heard great things about is the AMOK! system. It has always seemed to be more of fully rounded system of knife-combat, but would require quite a bit of time to learn. That would be one idea.

Another idea, and the direction I'm going, is the reverse edge methods made popular again by Shivworks and Southnarc. I have the two REM DVDs and find them very useful. It's more of a brutally effective system that can be learned very quickly (I would guess a weekend to be proficient, and an hour to be dangerous). It wouldn't be great at knife vs. knife but for any sort of defense, weapon retention, etc. it seems great to me. Those are my two suggestions. AMOK! if you want a long-term true knife system, shivworks if you want a quick/dirty/effective. Hope this helps.

 

[tyler34]

if you want a more complete listing from someone who seems to have done them all I would contact tinman. I would also recommend mike janich's martial blade concepts.

 

[grunt soldier]

you could also contact mercop on here. he isn't local but does a lot of knife training and i bet he could help you out with some other people he would recommend

 

[paddling_man]

Mercop is an excellent choice.

If you want something other than a weekend but a longer discipline, check out kali-silat. There are dojos in Indianapolis.
Indy Kali Silat

 

[Archaic_Entity]

IU has one of the largest martial arts programs in the country. I'd recommend looking at their stuff. Learning how to use a knife solely is a bad idea. Proficiency in martial combat is far more important. But their Filipino Martial Arts is focused on sticks and knives primarily, which is the most focused on weapons they've really got.

Personally, I recommend training in a few martial arts and unarmed self defense over training with a knife. People tend to focus on only using their knives when they have them in their hands, which can become a major liability in a fight. Become proficient with your body and then start adding weapons as extensions to what you're good at.

 

[Revopop]

If I'm in a situation where I have to defend myself, it's most likely going to be with a gun, and I feel confident & proficient with all my guns. Mostly I just want enough knife training to feel similarly proficient & confident.

 

[Archaic_Entity]

If I'm in a situation where I have to defend myself, it's most likely going to be with a gun, and I feel confident & proficient with all my guns. Mostly I just want enough knife training to feel similarly proficient & confident.

Relying on a gun for all self-defense is just as bad as relying on just one fist. There are so many possible mechanical problems with a gun, you might not be able to draw in time, they might be too close, it might get knocked out of your hand, and they might come at you with a knife.

Honestly... investing in a solid self-defense martial arts is the way to go. I'm not arguing with the defense capabilities of a gun, but if you're honestly serious about self defense then you should focus on all aspects about it and not just one.

Personally, a good one to start with is hapkido. IU offers a hapkido club, if you're interested, and there are a few gyms around Indiana that do. That's where I would start. You learn hand-to-hand, weapon-on-weapon, knife and gun defenses, and knife-on-knife fighting. You won't be a super expert, but you'll be more than proficient and comfortable in each other them.

 

[Revopop]

You certainly make good points. I'm down here in Evansville, otherwise I'd definitely look into the IU programs. I used to know a guy who practiced Aikido for years, & he always said one of the best things about the Japanese martial arts was that they didn't rely so much on physical fitness. More about leverage, balance, & redirecting your opponent's momentum. Sounds a little more my speed than karate-chopping boards in half.

 

[jdhaines]

One of the best lessons I've learned so far (still somewhat new to training in general) is that the gun is not the be-all end-all of self defense. I always though it was. My dad still says things like "that knife is great and all, but if you have a knife and we're close together...I'll just pull out my gun and shoot you." I've learned just how untrue that statement is. I personally learned it through lots of DVDs (Suarez Die less often 1&2 are good), reading lots online, and watching FoF. This weekend is my first FoF class and I hope to crystallize that even better.

 

[Archaic_Entity]

Hapkido is a Korean martial art, but is very similar to aikido (in fact, their characters are the same). It is a good blend between the Tae-Kwon-Do kicking and punching and actual leverage attacks. Most of what you do is practicing force escalation in leverage based attacks (similar to aikido), but you also have kicks and punches to augment the attacks. A lot of the striking comes into play for weapon-on-weapon fighting, or hand-vs-weapon.

Classes | Rising Phoenix Martial Arts Academy
Offers a good amount of martials arts. I'd look into the FMA for knife fighting.

Morris Dynamics Martial Arts Training Center
Offers Krav Maga, which is a very combat-oriented martial art. It's one of the few things not offered at IU that I wish was.

Obviously, I can't tell you how decently they train everything... but I would look at those two first for what it seems you're looking for.

 

[iChokePeople]

You certainly make good points. I'm down here in Evansville, otherwise I'd definitely look into the IU programs. I used to know a guy who practiced Aikido for years, & he always said one of the best things about the Japanese martial arts was that they didn't rely so much on physical fitness. More about leverage, balance, & redirecting your opponent's momentum. Sounds a little more my speed than karate-chopping boards in half.

Dan Inosanto is going to be doing a seminar in Evansville very soon... April, I think. Tough to beat some time with Dan Inosanto.

 

[Revopop]

Hapkido is a Korean martial art, but is very similar to aikido (in fact, their characters are the same). It is a good blend between the Tae-Kwon-Do kicking and punching and actual leverage attacks. Most of what you do is practicing force escalation in leverage based attacks (similar to aikido), but you also have kicks and punches to augment the attacks. A lot of the striking comes into play for weapon-on-weapon fighting, or hand-vs-weapon.

Classes | Rising Phoenix Martial Arts Academy
Offers a good amount of martials arts. I'd look into the FMA for knife fighting.

Morris Dynamics Martial Arts Training Center
Offers Krav Maga, which is a very combat-oriented martial art. It's one of the few things not offered at IU that I wish was.

Obviously, I can't tell you how decently they train everything... but I would look at those two first for what it seems you're looking for.

Thanks for the links. I sent an email to both places asking for info, if I end up training at either place I'll be sure to post a review for my INGO peeps.

 

[Archaic_Entity]

No problem. Have fun with the training.

 

[Tinman]

if you want a more complete listing from someone who seems to have done them all I would contact tinman. I would also recommend mike janich's martial blade concepts.

Thanks for the props Bro!

We discussed this about a month ago here:
https://www.indianagunowners.com/forums/tactics_and_training/134734-defensive_knife_training.html

There's quite a bit of good info there.

Hapkido is a Korean martial art, but is very similar to aikido (in fact, their characters are the same). It is a good blend between the Tae-Kwon-Do kicking and punching and actual leverage attacks. Most of what you do is practicing force escalation in leverage based attacks (similar to aikido), but you also have kicks and punches to augment the attacks. A lot of the striking comes into play for weapon-on-weapon fighting, or hand-vs-weapon.

Actually, Hapkido is a derivative of Daito-ryu Aiki-jujutsu, as is Aikido, just a different family. Interestingly enough, many of today's modern martial arts are derived from Aiki-jujutsu. As a general rule, the arts with the subscript of -do are competitive styles developed from combat arts.

When I started studying several years back, I was lucky enough to find a very good Juko-ryu Aiki-jujutsu instructor that was willing to take new students. Aiki in it's original form has striking, locks, throws, and ground work. Many of the arts that derived from it took one aspect of the Aiki form and expanded to create and entire art. Take for instance Brazilian jujutsu that took just the ground work and built an entire art form.

Sorry for the historical thread drift.

As I stated in the other thread, a long term study of a Kali art (my choice is Inosanto-Kali) is worthwhile. Especially if you have a forward thinking Sensei that will adapt to what happens in the world today. Many of these arts were developed in a much different time and around a different set of weapons. What works with a 4lb Kamagong Barong may not be as effective with a 2.75" pocket folder. Having said that, the footwork and open hand will be beneficial when you are learning defensive techniques. The study will also help you to become a learner. Most of these short term training seminars go much smoother with a lower power curve if you have a foundational base in a traditional art.

Just the cliff notes version, I had more till this stinking confuser locked up let me know if you have any other questions.

Tinman....

 

[Archaic_Entity]

Thanks for the props Bro!

We discussed this about a month ago here:
https://www.indianagunowners.com/forums/tactics_and_training/134734-defensive_knife_training.html

There's quite a bit of good info there.



Actually, Hapkido is a derivative of Daito-ryu Aiki-jujutsu, as is Aikido, just a different family. Interestingly enough, many of today's modern martial arts are derived from Aiki-jujutsu. As a general rule, the arts with the subscript of -do are competitive styles developed from combat arts.

When I started studying several years back, I was lucky enough to find a very good Juko-ryu Aiki-jujutsu instructor that was willing to take new students. Aiki in it's original form has striking, locks, throws, and ground work. Many of the arts that derived from it took one aspect of the Aiki form and expanded to create and entire art. Take for instance Brazilian jujutsu that took just the ground work and built an entire art form.

Sorry for the historical thread drift.

As I stated in the other thread, a long term study of a Kali art (my choice is Insanto-Kali) is worthwhile. Especially if you have a forward thinking Sensei that will adapt to what happens in the world today. Many of these arts were developed in a much different time and around a different set of weapons. What works with a 4lb Kamagong Barong may not be as effective with a 2.75" pocket folder. Having said that, the footwork and open hand will be beneficial when you are learning defensive techniques. The study will also help you to become a learner. Most of these short term training seminars go much smoother with a lower power curve if you have a foundational base in a traditional art.

Just the cliff notes version, I had more till this stinking confuser locked up let me know if you have any other questions.

Tinman....

Thanks for putting up a more informative history. I was at work, so I was shooting in short spurts for information.

I've never had the opportunity to train under Inosanto, but I did train FMA at IU when I had the time. As soon as I transfer there I'll be doing the martial arts program, fun stuff.

Do you run a gym of any sort? Or is it more of a freelance type deal?

 

[Tinman]

I freelance. I've never been one to sit down and run a business. I do host a lot of stuff, from the guys I trust and want to train with.

Glad you appreciated it, My Shihan likes to talk about the history, and the old arts, so it's a great chance to soak in all the history.

Inosanto is obviously derived from some of the other Kali arts. However, Guru Dan Inosanto brought many of the things he's learned from other forms and folded them in very well. I think it makes for a better integration with other combat stylings. Again I just kind of got lucky that my Shihan was teaching that form. He also teaches Brazilian Jujutsu so he manages to keep whooping my butt no matter where we take the fight :P

Tinman....

 

[Archaic_Entity]

Do you ever do anything down at IU with Jason or Pat Kelly?

 

[Tinman]

No, but a few of our students who take class down at IU have. Mostly we just see them on breaks these days though.

 

[mercop]

Everyone seems fixated on knife training or knife fighting. Based on my experience and research the most the most important skill set, yet often the most ignored is the ability to defend against a knife you never see with open hand combatives. Most stuff spends way more time on using your own knife, or even knife on knife. Here are some articles dealing with the subject at hand-

Dealing with the edged weapon threat

The nuts and bolts of interpersonal combat

- George