Driver License Check Returns Carry Permit

[Yup!]

Not all LTCH holders are "good guys" IME. Most of the time they are but its not an absolute.

The Fort Hood shooter comes to mind. Some wolves dress as sheepdogs as part of their attack. Having a LTCH doesn't instantly make you a good guy. It's highly probably that you are a good guy, but not absolute. It's also highly probably that we won't ever use our firearms in a defensive shooting, but if there's a .01% chance, then I want to do what I can.

 

[mrjarrell]

So, the law being what it is, if your license has been run and a LTCH has popped up, and the cop asks if you have a firearm can you tell him to bug off, that it's none of his business? If any firearm interaction is finished once they know you have a LTCH, can they even ask?

 

[Mr. Habib]

They can ask you anything. The relevant questions IMHO are; are you required to answer and what are the consequences if you refuse? All of this may be moot though because the LEO can't run your DL until after you surrender it. He/she will probably ask about any weapons when he/she first approaches your car.

 

[sig shooter]

I think it has been brought up a few times. Do you have any source for your assertations that when a drivers licence is ran, your LTCH status is returned also? I think the general consensus around here is that it is a Local thing, and not a state thing. As in some local /county Dept records/systems return that info, but that most do not.

As a 911 dispatcher and police officer I can tell you that it has been put in place state wide approximately 2 months ago. Prior to that it was only in certain areas of the state. When we get a return it will let you know that the subject has had a LTCH in the past. We must then run the permit number to see if it is still valid.

 

[kludge]

Not all LTCH holders are "good guys" IME. Most of the time they are but its not an absolute.

OK, then, how about, all this tells a LEO is that the driver filled out a form, got fingerprinted, paid a tax to exercise constitutional right, had a background check, and that the ISP is satisfied that you are a "proper person" and nothing more?

But I still hold the opinion that armed with the knowledge that the driver of the vehicle has a LTCH and because of the Supreme Court decision, in order to sieze a firearm, even for the duration of a traffic stop, an LEO would need to swear under oath that the person stopped was "dangerous" according to the IC definition.

I think somebody at the ISP just got a bug up their butt that the "duty to inform" bill got shot down last session, and went and did their own thing, and has a "screw eveyone who thinks they have the right not to tell me they have a gun" kind of attitude toward their fellow citizens.

 

[Stschil]

Not all LTCH holders are "good guys" IME. Most of the time they are but its not an absolute.

Maybe INGO membership and reputation should be forwarded also?

 

[Yup!]

Maybe INGO membership and reputation should be forwarded also?

I clearly hope they use something besides post count on INGO to determine who is reputable or not.


I'm a non-res, carrying on an out of state license, which has my current Indiana address on it, with a low post count here at INGO. I'm going to be eating pavement for a burnt out tail light.

So if it comes back after they run your license, it means they have already been to your vehicle, had a conversation, you willingly handed over your drivers license. Had more conversation, then the officer goes back to his cruiser to run your license - this is the point in the stop where he finds out??

So the officer safety is only a concern for the second half of the stop, not the initial meeting?

I'm not real smart, but I suspect shooting a cop and leaving your drivers license with him, and all the other information he has written/typed into the cruiser would be the wrong time to do that. - pointless law.

 

[eric001]

I clearly hope they use something besides post count on INGO to determine who is reputable or not.


I'm a non-res, carrying on an out of state license, which has my current Indiana address on it, with a low post count here at INGO. I'm going to be eating pavement for a burnt out tail light.

So if it comes back after they run your license, it means they have already been to your vehicle, had a conversation, you willingly handed over your drivers license. Had more conversation, then the officer goes back to his cruiser to run your license - this is the point in the stop where he finds out??

So the officer safety is only a concern for the second half of the stop, not the initial meeting?

I'm not real smart, but I suspect shooting a cop and leaving your drivers license with him, and all the other information he has written/typed into the cruiser would be the wrong time to do that. - pointless law.

Great post!! And after reading it, I'd have to argue the "not real smart" part.

This sounds suspiciously like that fabled thing called "logic"... Be very careful trying to use this mysterious "logic" stuff, as bureaucrats and liberals may be completely confounded by it, not having any idea how to use it themselves!!

The above statement may or may not deserve to be in purple, depending on whether or not the reader is a bureaucrat or liberal.

 

[HeadlessRoland]

We'll settle for nothing now and we'll settle for nothing later.

Registration always precedes confiscation. Period.

This is de facto registration. They might not know your inventory,
but when the Red Dawn comes, they'll know where to find you, comrade.

 

[SideArmed]

As a 911 dispatcher and police officer I can tell you that it has been put in place state wide approximately 2 months ago. Prior to that it was only in certain areas of the state. When we get a return it will let you know that the subject has had a LTCH in the past. We must then run the permit number to see if it is still valid.

So the tittle of the post should more correctly have read, "New policy enacted...." Or at the very least in the OP should have stated "as of two months ago...." Not the generality that when a licence is run it automatically returns a LTCH status. As it has been discussed numerous times in the past on the forum that it has been a local database hit, and not in fact a statewide one.

Thank you for the clarification on the issue though.

ETA: It was nice of someone who knew about this change to let some of the general populace, or at least the thousands of us that this effects, know ahead of time.

 

[kludge]

ETA: It was nice of someone who knew about this change to let some of the general populace, or at least the thousands of us that this effects, know ahead of time.

+1

 

[viiiupndhead]

We'll settle for nothing now and we'll settle for nothing later.

Registration always precedes confiscation. Period.

This is de facto registration. They might not know your inventory,
but when the Red Dawn comes, they'll know where to find you, comrade.

Exactly. I won't make any guesses here but I'm willing to bet that those who have a LCTH, on average, own more inventory than those who do not. We're in a great state for gun owners but this is a tragic step in the wrong direction.

From NRA-ILA
Thursday, May 12, 2011

In one of the most successful pro-gun legislative sessions in the Hoosier State’s recent history, the Indiana General Assembly passed and Governor Mitch Daniels signed into law five new NRA-supported firearm bills!

As of July 1, Hoosiers will:

*Be protected from employer anti-gun workplace discrimination;
*Have the ability to purchase a long gun in any state that allows such sales;
*Transport a firearm to a shooting range without a state-issued permit;
*Know that wherever they travel throughout Indiana, the same firearm laws and freedoms apply evenly across local boundaries; and
*Carry a loaded firearm on their person on off-road vehicles on private property.

They should now add:
*Be added to a statewide, potentially national database of possibly hostile owners of firearms that took the time to pay a fee and submit to fingerprinting and a background check to carry them legally.

LEOs: What are the statistics on officers shot by citizens who have a LCTH? I'll tell you, too low to have reportable statistics. This is just one more way for us to be monitored. Police database today, public database tomorrow.

 

[Bill of Rights]

Exactly. I won't make any guesses here but I'm willing to bet that those who have a LCTH, on average, own more inventory than those who do not. We're in a great state for gun owners but this is a tragic step in the wrong direction.

From NRA-ILA
Thursday, May 12, 2011

In one of the most successful pro-gun legislative sessions in the Hoosier State’s recent history, the Indiana General Assembly passed and Governor Mitch Daniels signed into law five new NRA-supported firearm bills!

As of July 1, Hoosiers will:

*Be protected from employer anti-gun workplace discrimination;
*Have the ability to purchase a long gun in any state that allows such sales;
*Transport a firearm to a shooting range without a state-issued permit;
*Know that wherever they travel throughout Indiana, the same firearm laws and freedoms apply evenly across local boundaries; and
*Carry a loaded firearm on their person on off-road vehicles on private property.

They should now add:
*Be added to a statewide, potentially national database of possibly hostile owners of firearms that took the time to pay a fee and submit to fingerprinting and a background check to carry them legally.

LEOs: What are the statistics on officers shot by citizens who have a LCTH? I'll tell you, too low to have reportable statistics. This is just one more way for us to be monitored. Police database today, public database tomorrow.

IN law forbids LTCH info from being made public info. This law was passed year before last.

With that said, I do agree that this is a giant step in the wrong direction, especially in light of Real ID.

Blessings,
Bill

 

[ATM]

They can ask you anything. The relevant questions IMHO are; are you required to answer and what are the consequences if you refuse? ...

We've never been required to answer and we're still not.

"Any guns in the vehicle this evening?"



"Sir, do you have any guns in the vehicle?"



"SIR! Answer the question."



".........Why am I being detained?"

 

[aikidoka]

Well shoot. This puts the urge in me to OC in my new neighborhood that has the LEO officer living down the street. Might make for some fun while my Kentucky fiance is up here for a few weeks.

 

[jgreiner]

Yup! You're missing the entire issue. I don't give a s&$@ who knows I have a LTCH. It's the fact that the State of Indiana considers my exercising my right information a law enforcement officer should be automatically made aware of. Seems like they are trying to sensationalize the risk of citizens being armed. Now if IDACS were magical and could tell an officer there is a person in that car who intends on shooting you, then he'll yes I can see the overwhelming benefit. But to simply lump all LTCH persons into a group that officers should be aware of...bull hockey.

Actually, I have no problems with anyone knowing that I have a LTCH. In fact, I had considered taking mine in and having it blown up and printed on a T-Shirt. The only problem was....the T-Shirt would have to be pink for it to be legal, and I really have no desire to wear a pink T-shirt.....

 

[Dead Duck]

Actually, I have no problems with anyone knowing that I have a LTCH. In fact, I had considered taking mine in and having it blown up and printed on a T-Shirt. The only problem was....the T-Shirt would have to be pink for it to be legal, and I really have no desire to wear a pink T-shirt.....

I'm not a pink guy myself but - I might just wear that one.
Be kind-of fun to OC while proudly wearing my "pink" shirt. If you get approached or hassled, well.....there's nothing left to say. Just "puff" your chest out, and be on your way.
All really self-explanatory.

Of course if wearing a coat over your Pink LTCH shirt, it could get interesting. Say your approched in a parking lot, OCing and an officer asks about a license. It would look like your Flashing him.

 

[charley59]

As far as I know, this is only a local thing. Oddly enuff, I work at Tippecanoe County. When I run my name on the computer, my LTCH does not appear on my record. However, I run my friend's name and the LTCH does appear. I think it is a notation (optional) that the officer can add during a traffic stop or whatever. I have No Idea what ISP does, or what info they have available to them.

 

[7urtle]

i got pulled over yesterday. the officer asked me 4 or 5 times if i had my firearm. he said it shows i have a permit and if i have my firearm while being pulled over tell the officer as soon as they approach.

 

[kludge]

How did you respond to his questions?