1911s, Single Action Armies, and leaf springs

[Vanguard.45]

Wondering if someone could explain this to me?

One of the major arguments for cowboy shooters claiming the Ruger Vaquero is a better choice for hard use than a more traditional SAA or clone is the fact that the Rugers use coil mainsprings as opposed to leaf main springs.

However, 1911s use leaf springs for their sear springs. Granted, the 1911's main spring is a coil, but if leaf springs are that fragile as to not be suitable for heavy use, wouldn't you hear about failures of the sear springs in 1911s being used for competition?

Or is it that the leaf springs in SAAs are getting torqued harder than in the 1911s?

Any insights from the SAA/ 1911 crowds would be most appreciated.

Vanguard.45

 

[roadrunner681]

how would leaf springs be fragile? look at pickup trucks i know there thicker but wouldn't the strength and temper of the spring matter more than the type of spring it is.

 

[Vanguard.45]

Agreed. . .

but the argument is still being made that the coil mainspring is more durable than the traditional leaf mainspring in SAAs.

Why is that and what is their rationale?

 

[roadrunner681]

are they multiple coil springs? i mean the type of spring that has 2 or maybe 3 wires coiled together.

 

[Vanguard.45]

I don't believe the type of coil spring enters into their reasoning.

I think it is simply the belief that the coil spring outlasts and is less likely to break in case of misuse perhaps?

Reason I am asking is that I am in the market for an SAA and most of the ones I like the looks of are the more traditional ones with the leaf springs.

Just wondering if the rumors and legends are true that the leaf springs tend to truly be as fragile as reported, and if that is the case, how are the 1911 leaf springs still being used without this same fragility being a major problem?

Thanks so far.

Vanguard.45

 

[AllenM]

I am not to familiar with the inner workings of a revolver but the 1911 springs only move about 1/16" - to 1/8" and they do still get weak but if a revolver has alot more movement it would wear out much quicker.

Just speculating

 

[rockhopper46038]

Certain springs perform better at different amplitudes of compression/extension, displacement and spring rate/force. I don't spend my days designing springs, but as a mechanical engineer with a reasonable understanding of design concerns, I can see how the leaf spring in the 1911 is a good solution for the application, but a coil spring is more appropriate for the main spring, recoil spring and firing pin spring. Being not familiar with the SAA revolvers, I can't say if I would agree with the assertion the OP points out.

 

[ShootnCut]

I have a Colt SAA that is 113 years old and a Colt 49 Pocket that is 151 years old. Both appear to have the original springs and both function fine.
I think if a spring is manufactured properly and not over compressed or abused in any way the only thing that determines it's life is how often it's used. All things will fatigue in time. Look at how many vehicles have both coil and leaf springs that outlast the vehicle itself.
I can't however speak from the standpoint of shooting thousands of rounds a month since I can't afford to do that. Perhaps someone here who does can give their insight on the longevity of one versus the other.

 

[Manatee]

In order to adjust the force of a leaf spring, it has to be ground. That process is somewhat of an art and can be time consuming for the uniitiated. Also, leaf springs are subject to stress risers from scratches.

A coil spring can be swapped out easily. If the user is of a mind to grind the coil spring with a mandril and a belt sander, well, that's an easy job but why bother when springs only cost about $5.

For cowboy shooters, a Ruger replacement spring can run from 10# on up to 24#. Typically, those who have a competition gun will run a little lighter than standard but not so light as to affect lock time.

A leaf mainspring doesn't have the utility flexibility.

Also, comparing a mainspring with a 1911 triple spring isn't a good one.

 

[Vanguard.45]

So, what is the consensus on leaf mainspring longevity?

Do you typically avoid buying SAAs with the leaf spring vs the coil spring mainsprings, or are the differences so minor as not to warrant concern?

 

[walt o]

Colt SAA are like a fine watch, Rugers are like a TIMEX , much easier to find someone to work on them . Colts are easy to get out of time and HARD to find a good smith to work on them. It is not the leaf springs that are the problem I have many older S&W with leaf springs that are fine . As someone else said it is easy to change a coil spring to a KNOWN lighter or heaver spring .It takes a good Smith to lighten a leaf spring.if you screw up harder to make a leaf than a coil.Their are parts changers and gun smiths.

 

[bigkahunasix]

Colt SAA are like a fine watch, Rugers are like a TIMEX , much easier to find someone to work on them . Colts are easy to get out of time and HARD to find a good smith to work on them. It is not the leaf springs that are the problem I have many older S&W with leaf springs that are fine . As someone else said it is easy to change a coil spring to a KNOWN lighter or heaver spring .It takes a good Smith to lighten a leaf spring.if you screw up harder to make a leaf than a coil.Their are parts changers and gun smiths.

Pretty much this.

Coil springs are easier to produce with known consistency and therefore make producing a cheaper- ie... less labor intensive (monetarily-not quality wise) end product.

There are alot of tricks involved in getting a consistent, smooth action on a flat-spring gun and all are by-hand, skill based modifications- thinning the overall spring, knife edging, contact point polishing, strain screw adjustment / modification, smoothing and re-contouring the spring recess on the hammer.....etc...etc...

As said above...parts changers vs. Gunsmiths

BK6