AAR: Mindset Laboratory Vehicle Force-on-Force Scenarios 5-20-12

[esrice]

Mindset Lab | Real Training + Real Testing
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What:
Mindset Laboratory's Vehicle Force-on-Force Scenarios
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When:
Sunday, May 20th, 2012
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Where:
"Pleasantville" Mock Town (I-70 & Harding, Indianapolis)
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Who:
Shay VanVlymen (Shay) - Owner/Instructor
James - roleplayer
Joe - roleplayer
Nathan (TheAutomator) - roleplayer​

Students:
esrice, OneBadV8, MangoTango, Chindong, Dan
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Why:
In line with this year's focus on FoF/combatives, this was my 6th and final course with Mindset Lab's current offerings.

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This past weekend I participated in my 6th course with Mindset Laboratory. I got just as much out of it as I did with my first one. You can check out my previous AARs here:

Flashlight Combatives
https://www.indianagunowners.com/fo...boratory_flashlight_combatives_12_4_11_a.html

Intro to Force-on-Force and Dynamic Force-on-Force Scenarios
https://www.indianagunowners.com/fo...d_dynamic_fof_scenarios_feb_18_19_2012_a.html

Firearms Combatives and Retention
https://www.indianagunowners.com/fo...mbatives_and_retention_march_18th_2012_a.html

Low-Light Force-on-Force Scenarios
https://www.indianagunowners.com/fo...light_force_on_force_scenarios_4_22_12_a.html

This was my second course taken in the new training facility, "Pleasantville". Because the mock town incorporates an intersection, storefronts, and 2 actual cars, it was the perfect place to train on a defense in and around vehicles.

POV of Pleasantville from vehicle.

Class kicked off in the classroom. New this time was the addition of a computer projector. The safety briefing was enhanced with a Power Point presentation outlining both the firearms safety rules and the force-on-force specific rules.

Class was medium-sized and all students had at least 1 or 2 previous Mindset Lab courses under their belts. We had a fireman, a software engineer, a tactical medic, a hotel operator, and a business owner. Having trained with each other before, the class atmosphere was more relaxed (until, of course, the scenarios started ).

After the initial briefings we jumped right in. Everyone removed their weapons and locked them in the gear room. We were then patted down and wanded. These patdowns are important, as I found a hidden toothbrush on a fellow student-- you can never be too careful.

For the first part of class we participated in a demonstration on the durability of auto glass, and its resistance to breakage.

Two students were given tire irons and were asked to bust out a van window. Neither of them could, despite multiple attempts and solid hits.

[ame]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xmODdx5PjTQ[/ame]

We were then given some tips and tricks that could help us in the event we needed to break auto glass.

One handy item we demoed was called a ResQMe. It was a small keychain-sized tool that incorporated both a seatbelt cutter and spring-loaded window punch. I was amazed at just how little effort it took to break out an entire window with the tiny tool.

[ame]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DwEyffB7qVY[/ame]

Emergency hammer, car escape tool, keychain rescue tool, auto escape tool, centerpunch - ResQMe by nov8

Of note, that particular car once belonged to INGO Site Owner Fenway. Sorry Boss.

After the demonstrations we moved on to some skills work. We talked about drawing from a seated position and the problems a seatbelt can cause.

We also covered the proper draw, giving consideration to not muzzle sweeping our own legs.

Each student was then given the opportunity to try the draw for themselves using blue guns. Some thought the draw was easier than they were expecting-- some thought it was more difficult. Everyone agreed that reholstering was more difficult, as the holster often changed positions or became smashed between the seat.

[ame]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=A3ATpY8w-6U[/ame]

We then upped the ante by firing on a threat from the vehicle. On the Fight! command we engaged using a UTM-converted Glock 17T. Speed was not the priority yet-- it was working on the manipulation and getting used to pulling the trigger on an actual person.

[ame]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=88NJSFM0_Yk[/ame]

[ame]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_Htn5ZpNYe8[/ame]

[ame]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JkJvcQ0EaUQ[/ame]

A few leftover UTM casings.

We broke for lunch and OneBadV8 and I grabbed some Subway. We took it back to Pleasantville and joined everyone in the Scarbucks outdoor cafe, where Shay was entertaining everyone with college campus carry stories.

After lunch we were all sequestered back in the classroom as we waited for the scenarios to begin. For the next several hours we each ran through 4 dynamic scenarios that focused on living with and around vehicles. After all 5 students had run a scenario we would gather back in Pleasantville for a group debrief, where we had the opportunity to share our experience with the other students and discuss alternate courses of action. This was the first time we had used this particular format and I thought it was a very valuable exercise. I would recommend it for every future scenario course.

In an effort to not diminish the value to future trainees I will not divulge details about the scenarios, but I would like to share some lessons that were learned or reinforced.

In no particular order:

• Don't let threats get too close to you. If a weapon-wielding attacker has shown intent, ability, and opportunity, there is no sense in letting him get close enough to hurt/kill you. Even if its a contact weapon.
• Don't neglect alternate exits. There is no law that says you must go in and out the front door during a lethal force encounter.
• If you just shot someone, make your own 9-1-1 call.
• The more FoF scenario work I do, the slower events unfold, and the faster my brain operates.
• As much as your seatbelt will help you when moving, it can hurt you while you are stationary. Take it off if you aren't moving.
• Lock your car doors. (duh)
• Every student agreed that carrying without a round in the chamber is ill-advised. No one reported the time or opportunity to chamber a round before firing. We were curious to have someone try it.
• "Know your backstop" isn't just Rule #4. It means don't murder your friend because you shot him through the bad guy.
• Get. Medical. Training.
• Eyewitness accounts can be wildly inaccurate. Be a good witness.

Again I want to thank Shay and all the Mindset Lab role players. They really make this kind of training believable. The nuances of the psychologically crafted scenarios are what sets them apart from similar programs. I honestly can't put the worth of this training in mere words. I wish I could share the impact with my fellow INGOers, but one really needs to experience it for themselves to get the full effect.


If and when they offer additional courses, I will be there.



So what do you call those who have trained with Mindset Lab? It dawned on me right in the middle of class.

 

[OneBadV8]

It was definitely a fun day. I'll add a few other things I learned.

• Top off the gun
• Carry a flashlight
• Get medical training
• Top off the gun
• Reholstering in a car is very difficult. Take your time.
• Be careful of drawstroke not to sweep yourself or others.
• Don't have unnecessary things in your hands
• And.... Top off the gun

 

[esrice]

• Don't have unnecessary things in your hands

And what if you do? Then what happens?

 

[OneBadV8]

And what if you do? Then what happens?

I'm told they can become part of the firing grip

Did I mention to top off the gun?

 

[the1kidd03]

Is this one which requires the "Intro" course first?

 

[OneBadV8]

Is this one which requires the "Intro" course first?

Yes, all of the FoF classes require the Intro to FoF class first.

 

[the1kidd03]

Yes, all of the FoF classes require the Intro to FoF class first.

I was curious since Esrice made the point about taking additional time to get used to sighting in on a person, which I already knew was heavily worked on in "Intro."

 

[esrice]

I was curious since Esrice made the point about taking additional time to get used to sighting in on a person, which I already knew was heavily worked on in "Intro."

Same thing, just done in a new environment.

In Dynamic we do this face-to-face, as you mentioned. In Low-Light we do this face-to-face in the dark with the use of a flashlight. In Vehicle we did it from a van.

We could've just as easily shot at a stationary target, but having a real person standing their with a weapon and threatening your life further drives home the skillset.

 

[the1kidd03]

Same thing, just done in a new environment.

In Dynamic we do this face-to-face, as you mentioned. In Low-Light we do this face-to-face in the dark with the use of a flashlight. In Vehicle we did it from a van.

We could've just as easily shot at a stationary target, but having a real person standing their with a weapon and threatening your life further drives home the skillset.

I think I "misinterpreted" the exercise from your AAR's. I perceived that this was an exercise in "Intro" simply to get someone over the psychological "hump" of beading in on another human being. Now, it seems as there is more to it than that in the exercise and associated curriculum?!

 

[esrice]

I perceived that this was an exercise in "Intro" simply to get someone over the psychological "hump" of beading in on another human being.

This is indeed one of several reasons. And its not unique to just Intro.

 

[the1kidd03]

This is indeed one of several reasons. And its not unique to just Intro.

My intended inquiry was just curious why it's "reiterated" in each of the classes if "Intro" is a pre-req.? So, I figured there must be more to the exercise than what can be given in the thread.

 

[esrice]

My intended inquiry was just curious why it's "reiterated" in each of the classes if "Intro" is a pre-req.? So, I figured there must be more to the exercise than what can be given in the thread.

I think you might just be thinking more into it than is necessary.

Its just a skills rep that is done to give the student more experience in whatever the specific course focus is. Its the "walk" of a "crawl, walk, run" teaching model, with "crawl" being the blue gun work and "run" being the scenarios.

 

[the1kidd03]

I think you might just be thinking more into it than is necessary.

Its just a skills rep that is done to give the student more experience in whatever the specific course focus is. Its the "walk" of a "crawl, walk, run" teaching model, with "crawl" being the blue gun work and "run" being the scenarios.

I get all that, I just....think you're right. Perhaps I'm putting too much thought into it thanks to my "academic" career.

 

[Shay]

My intended inquiry was just curious why it's "reiterated" in each of the classes if "Intro" is a pre-req.? So, I figured there must be more to the exercise than what can be given in the thread.

Putting your gun's front sight on a person and pressing your trigger should not be a one-time training event. If we are actually learning to shoot people that is...

Yes, it's an exercise that is in Intro to Force on Force. As Evan already wrote, it's in Low Light FoF Scenarios as well. And now it's in Vehicle FoF Scenarios too.

There are both skills and Mindset lessons to be learned (or reinforced) from this exercise. There's no mystery here. I think it's important to have my students shoot actual living people as often as possible.

 

[the1kidd03]

Putting your gun's front sight on a person and pressing your trigger should not be a one-time training event. If we are actually learning to shoot people that is...

Yes, it's an exercise that is in Intro to Force on Force. As Evan already wrote, it's in Low Light FoF Scenarios as well. And now it's in Vehicle FoF Scenarios too.

There are both skills and Mindset lessons to be learned (or reinforced) from this exercise. There's no mystery here. I think it's important to have my students shoot actual living people as often as possible.

I agree. I would even go one further to say that it's probably the MOST important feature of realistic training for citizens who have likely never had to sight in on a person. I simply forget that presents a challenge for many people and so wondered why it's a part of each course. My negligence.