Agent Sues Smith & Wesson, Holster Maker After Shooting Himself

[Amishman44]

Hmmm...let's see if I get this straight...
He chambered a round...
He then placed the manual safety in the 'off' position...
Then, while re-holstering the weapon, he shot himself...
Nothing said about the booger finger NOT being on the trigger while attempting to re-holster the weapon!
Sounds like an abrupt case of 'dumb-@$$' attack!
Typically, one has to dial 9-1-1 to fix that!

Q: I thought those guys (and gals) were supposed to be smart?

 

[hpclayto]

Depends on context and result, but expect a suspension at the least.

Or a promotion.

 

[bgcatty]

Ridiculous allegations at best. Time for a motion to dismiss for failure to state a claim. The firearm didn’t fire without some action by the person handling the weapon.

 

[Drail]

It's de will of Allah man........

 

[muzicman71]

Guns don’t shoot people! People shoot people! Dumb people do Dumb things! It’s not the holsters fault! Dumb will always be Dumb!!

 

[HoughMade]

Why does the Social Security Administration have or need armed agents?

This.

Oh, and here's the thing about civil complaints, they're roughly 55-98% BS. Yes, that means the most legitimate case out there, the actual complaint is about 55% BS (because they just can't let well enough alone and have to pump even a good case up with BS). The 2% non-BS on the low end is because the plaintiff's lawyer usually gets his own name and contact information right.

 

[Shocker]

My brother is on ssi and he’s a thug. Not everyone is some old man or woman in a home and don’t forget most of those nursing home patients were trained by our military to kill. My father for one who was a USMC recon has dementia and is a nursing home and I still wouldn’t mess with him.

 

[HoughMade]

Ridiculous allegations at best. Time for a motion to dismiss for failure to state a claim. The firearm didn’t fire without some action by the person handling the weapon.

Nope. Not a candidate for a 12(b)(6). Defense will need evidence of how this happened, or at the least to prove that the gun and holster were not defective.

My brother is on ssi and he’s a thug. Not everyone is some old man or woman in a home and don’t forget most of those nursing home patients were trained by our military to kill. My father for one who was a USMC recon has dementia and is a nursing home and I still wouldn’t mess with him.

I am not saying that there is no need for federal law enforcement in this arena. I am questioning the need for a separate law enforcement agency specifically for this.

 

[Skywired]

May we have "Settled out of Court" for $1m, Alex?

WHAT?? A $1m you say??? Well now... I'd haft a consider that. Better odds than Publishers Clearing House....

 

[HoughMade]

May we have "Settled out of Court" for $1m, Alex?

Only if the defendants' lawyers suck and/or there really is a defect...and then $1 mil is pretty steep when a person is still breathing or not horribly disabled.

 

[MarkC]

This.

Oh, and here's the thing about civil complaints, they're roughly 55-98% BS. Yes, that means the most legitimate case out there, the actual complaint is about 55% BS (because they just can't let well enough alone and have to pump even a good case up with BS). The 2% non-BS on the low end is because the plaintiff's lawyer usually gets his own name and contact information right.

The best thing I've read all day.

 

[Expat]

This.

Oh, and here's the thing about civil complaints, they're roughly 55-98% BS. Yes, that means the most legitimate case out there, the actual complaint is about 55% BS (because they just can't let well enough alone and have to pump even a good case up with BS). The 2% non-BS on the low end is because the plaintiff's lawyer usually gets his own name and contact information right.

Then you have the complaints that just say, you did something negligent, my guy was horribly injured, you owe big bucks.... and it comes in as a first notice of the incident.

 

[HoughMade]

Then you have the complaints that just say, you did something negligent, my guy was horribly injured, you owe big bucks.... and it comes in as a first notice of the incident.

I've seen those. Not infrequently, they're filed on the second anniversary of whatever they claim caused the injury.

 

[Timjoebillybob]

Nope. Not a candidate for a 12(b)(6). Defense will need evidence of how this happened, or at the least to prove that the gun and holster were not defective.

Could you explain a bit better please? Not quite sure how you meant this. It sounds like your saying that the burden of proof is on the defendant, but I don't believe that's what you meant.

I've seen those. Not infrequently, they're filed on the second anniversary of whatever they claim caused the injury.

2 yr statute of limitations I'm guessing.

 

[Spear Dane]

2 yr statute of limitations I'm guessing.

Yes. The standard is 2 years from the day you know/think something happened. This allows you to still file a complaint 4 years later when you get sick and discover the surgeon left a sponge in you during a surgery.

 

[HoughMade]

Could you explain a bit better please? Not quite sure how you meant this. It sounds like your saying that the burden of proof is on the defendant, but I don't believe that's what you meant.

The ultimate burden of proof is on the plaintiff. However, if you want a case dismissed, the defendant has to affirmatively show why there is no liability as a matter of law. I doubt that will happen on a 12(b)(6) as that rule tests pleading. It's easy to plead this kind of action.

1. They made it.

2. I was doing everything right.

3. It was defective and hurt me.

4. I want money.

This case will ultimately, at least, have to go to summary judgment which, in Indiana, will require the defendants to affirmatively eliminate an essential element of the plaintiff's claim with admissible evidence.

In federal court, the standard is a bit more lax, but the defendant still has the burden, in a summary judgment, of showing why the plaintiff cannot recover.

If the case goes to trial, the burden is on the plaintiff to prove the case.

Think of it this way- any time someone is asking the court to do something, they have to show the court why it should.

Want money? Show why you should get it.

Want the case dismissed? Show why it should be dismissed.

 

[LtScott14]

In my older LEO days, I only carried what the PD had approved in firearms and holster rigs. Kind of simple logic. They worked and nobody shot themselves. Lot of new firearms, and ton of holster rigs. Even non-LEO gun carriers should be thoroughly trained to accept quality gear. You want a $10 holster to hold your $500 gun? be my guest and get a few bandaids to have in case. I have owned probably 75 different handguns, and I have 2 Tupperware tubs with holsters. I now own only a couple, and don't put my finger on a trigger unless to fire. The trigger makes all my guns fire. I also believe you should stay current with your firearm. They are not to be taken lightly. Clean, assemble, and store safely. If it is a CCW, I store it in a secure location, ready to go. With kids: I own digital lockbox with buttons. No key to leave behind.
Sorry to hear guy shot himself. Sounds like a training issue and forget junk holsters. 42 years a gun carrying guy with never a ND. Luck? No. Respect of a deadly weapon.
Good luck.

 

[ECS686]

In my older LEO days, I only carried what the PD had approved in firearms and holster rigs. Kind of simple logic. They worked and nobody shot themselves. Lot of new firearms, and ton of holster rigs. Even non-LEO gun carriers should be thoroughly trained to accept quality gear. You want a $10 holster to hold your $500 gun? be my guest and get a few bandaids to have in case. I have owned probably 75 different handguns, and I have 2 Tupperware tubs with holsters. I now own only a couple, and don't put my finger on a trigger unless to fire. The trigger makes all my guns fire. I also believe you should stay current with your firearm. They are not to be taken lightly. Clean, assemble, and store safely. If it is a CCW, I store it in a secure location, ready to go. With kids: I own digital lockbox with buttons. No key to leave behind.
Sorry to hear guy shot himself. Sounds like a training issue and forget junk holsters. 42 years a gun carrying guy with never a ND. Luck? No. Respect of a deadly weapon.
Good luck.

I agree with your statements 190% however as someone that has almost 20 years working in DOJ and serving as a firearms instructor it's I'll say.... complicated. First as me tioned (and especially in the FEDs) you have to use their gear with few exceptions (one or 2 agencies night alow a little choice in gear but usually it's what they say) and usually the people making the decision on firearms and gear is not the most current gun guy/gal. As much as I love revolvers you have agencies still issuing DAO Beretta and boat anchor Ruger P series.

Then there is the attitude of some employees that they don't want to go to the range but once when ever their agency required it (some that's once a year unless specialty teams) it's a fight to get some to bot o ly do it but retain anything. And they will run to the union if your I or T isn't dotted or crossed. And they will file against the agency or individual claiming some big breach of hurt feelings when. They were the incompetent ones.

Private sector is much more easy because most want to be there.

 

[Timjoebillybob]

The ultimate burden of proof is on the plaintiff. However, if you want a case dismissed, the defendant has to affirmatively show why there is no liability as a matter of law. I doubt that will happen on a 12(b)(6) as that rule tests pleading. It's easy to plead this kind of action.

1. They made it.

2. I was doing everything right.

3. It was defective and hurt me.

4. I want money.

This case will ultimately, at least, have to go to summary judgment which, in Indiana, will require the defendants to affirmatively eliminate an essential element of the plaintiff's claim with admissible evidence.

In federal court, the standard is a bit more lax, but the defendant still has the burden, in a summary judgment, of showing why the plaintiff cannot recover.

If the case goes to trial, the burden is on the plaintiff to prove the case.

Think of it this way- any time someone is asking the court to do something, they have to show the court why it should.

Want money? Show why you should get it.

Want the case dismissed? Show why it should be dismissed.

Ahh okay, I get you now. Thank you much.

Sorry to hear guy shot himself. Sounds like a training issue and forget junk holsters. 42 years a gun carrying guy with never a ND. Luck? No. Respect of a deadly weapon.
Good luck.

I won't say luck, but perhaps a lack of bad luck. Massad Ayoob just had an article where he had a ND with a revolver. It had been checked 3x prior to the ND. Once by him right before, once by the owner, and once by the RO. I'm pretty sure at least one of them had respect for firearms, probably all three. Here's the thread about it.
https://www.indianagunowners.com/fo...ussion/454490-why-all-guns-always-loaded.html

I agree with your statements 190% however as someone that has almost 20 years working in DOJ and serving as a firearms instructor it's I'll say.... complicated. First as me tioned (and especially in the FEDs) you have to use their gear with few exceptions (one or 2 agencies night alow a little choice in gear but usually it's what they say) and usually the people making the decision on firearms and gear is not the most current gun guy/gal. As much as I love revolvers you have agencies still issuing DAO Beretta and boat anchor Ruger P series.

Then there is the attitude of some employees that they don't want to go to the range but once when ever their agency required it (some that's once a year unless specialty teams) it's a fight to get some to bot o ly do it but retain anything. And they will run to the union if your I or T isn't dotted or crossed. And they will file against the agency or individual claiming some big breach of hurt feelings when. They were the incompetent ones.

Private sector is much more easy because most want to be there.

My local PD used to have Berettas, but they were DA/SA decock only. And what's bad about the boat anchor?

 

[ECS686]

Ahh okay, I get you now. Thank you much.



I won't say luck, but perhaps a lack of bad luck. Massad Ayoob just had an article where he had a ND with a revolver. It had been checked 3x prior to the ND. Once by him right before, once by the owner, and once by the RO. I'm pretty sure at least one of them had respect for firearms, probably all three. Here's the thread about it.
https://www.indianagunowners.com/fo...ussion/454490-why-all-guns-always-loaded.html


My local PD used to have Berettas, but they were DA/SA decock only. And what's bad about the boat anchor?

Just a figure of speech as the Ruger P series in DAO is in fact order ly good as a boat anchor. They were bot that duravle. Berettas were much better until the Vertecs came out then we had issues with the polymer triggers going ng dead. The DA/SA Beretta was a great gun carried one in the Military and they worked and worked.

New contract gun is S&W M&P if we ever get the $$$ to replace them.