Militia Man shot at by CBP

[in625shooter]

This thread is full of people who said it was a justified shooting because the militia member had a gun.


You keep saying that. So indulge me and provide in detail why one person is held to one standard and the other person is not. When, exactly, is it no longer necessary to know who/what one is shooting at?



While this is true, this wasn't legitimate self defense.



Well, when a BP agent shoots in self defense, we can discuss self defense legal nuances. Shooting at a man just because you see he has a firearm is not justifiable self defense.

No one said that they were justified just because the militia member had a rifle, there will be an investigation, However BP agents are some of the best trained so I would doubt that they did anything aginst policy. No one knows if the militia member didn't follow their orders, did he run up on them not realizing they were BP agents, the list goes on.

To many folks are fixated and think they shot at him only because of the rifle. No one here know that which the investigation will pan out.

As far as a higher standard everyone is held to pretty much the same, the difference is LEO's can be covered in the "scope of their employment" where others are not. In the case where LEO is justified at shooting a perp and hit an innocent person that in it's self is not criminal so the agency will usually cover the cost of any civil litigation as long as that Officer followed agency approved policy. A homeowner acting on his own only has himself to cover him in the same scenario. In the case of a homeowner killing a non player in their house, very few would be criminally charged.

But no matter which scenario LEO or homeowner there will be an investigation

 

[Trigger Time]

I think if law enforcement is gonna be operating on my property (anyone's private property) then they should be the one providing a courtesy heads up.
Unrelated of this incident specifically Its pretty sad that our govt hasn't fulfilled it's obligations to protect and secure our borders and regular citizens must do it. If I had land along the border the Feds wouldn't be welcome on it. I'd hire my own security. Because of coarse I'd have the money to

 

[Thor]

If you are as familiar with the border problem as you say, would you say that your friends who own ranches on the US-Mexico border cooperate and coordinate with the local U.S. Border Patrol?

They do cooperate, they are all retired military and understand the other side of the coin and will do what they can to help.

What they have no real ability to do is coordinate on a real time basis...they'd need to issue all the residents LMRs with CBP/ICE/DHS/Local LEO frequencies. Cell phone coverage is non-existent. Heck one of my friends has a 2k acre cattle spread and the phone company pays him monthly to not ask for service because he is so in the middle of nowhere.

 

[Thor]

Regardless, securing the border in the same manner as we've secured the Korean border for decades would eliminate both the need for civilian volunteers to police the border and the opportunity for forces who are allied yet not in communication to cause accidents.

It's interesting that we can track a cow and all its offspring that may have been exposed to mad cow disease but it's way too hard to find people living and working that are illegally here when they can get SocSec, food stamps, welfare, healthcare...

Sure some folks slip past the NK Border and are welcomed to SK but the numbers are orders of magnitude different for what's happening here. We're getting the numbers they got over the last 50 years about every two weeks.

 

[Thor]

Sort of similar. Sept 17, 2001, Deputy Jason Baker was shot and killed by guys he was chasing in a car pursuit. They shot him with an AK clone and a SKS through the rear window of their car. When they bailed, they went in different directions. Well, as officers showed up for the perimeter, one bank security guard in his house inside the perimeter decided he wanted to help the officers. So, he went outside in with his pistol in his hand. He started low crawling to the officers from behind them. Seeing him, they shot him, he survived. While that is not exactly the same situation as the OP, I have learned LONG ago not to judge the validity of most shootings from the comforts of my home. As a firearms and combatives instructor, I am quite aware of how sideways REAL LIFE gets and that 20/20 hindsite is a poor method of judging.

When the world goes bad it goes bad in a hurry and the only reality we can respond to is the one we are living in.

I have a friend who is in CBP and they were in the office one day when they heard on the news that there was an active hunt for a fugitive going on right in their neighborhood. They all grabbed their guns and started for the door then realized how 20+ armed guys pouring out of the building might be perceived so they didn't...they had no way to coordinate.

Back to my first line, if someone starts shooting at me when I'm on my land I'm going to be one p'd off SOB.

The problem with over reaction is that target A may not be a soft target, and he's not an enemy of the shooter until shooter A shoots at him.

But as BOR points out, for this incident it's MMQBing and the INGO armchair jury. I'd like to hear what the militia member thought about the shooting...

 

[BE Mike]

Although some may consider this old news, I think we can learn from it: 18-Year Old Texan, Herding Goats, Killed by U.S. Marine Corps Anti-Drug Patrol; Criminal Investigation of Shooting Underway

 

[Beowulf]

It's interesting that we can track a cow and all its offspring that may have been exposed to mad cow disease but it's way too hard to find people living and working that are illegally here when they can get SocSec, food stamps, welfare, healthcare...

Sure some folks slip past the NK Border and are welcomed to SK but the numbers are orders of magnitude different for what's happening here. We're getting the numbers they got over the last 50 years about every two weeks.

You want to be careful with that line of reasoning. What you are explicitly calling for is for all people (including US citizens) to be treated like cattle. To be tagged, registered, and constantly monitored, with their movements being tracked in databases.

So, I'll tell you what, I will gladly accept a flood of illegal immigrants into the US, even with all the problems it brings (and the humanitarian crisis it creates), if the alternative is a fascist police state where our movements are constantly tracked and we need to continually provide our papers to armed government agents at a whim.

 

[Thor]

Actually, not what I was calling for at all. We already have the tools in place to remove the illegals among us. We just need to use them...on NON-CITIZENS.

Also I'm not willing to accept that trade off. There should be no trade off. No police state, no illegals. One does not have to lead to the other.

 

[Thor]

Although some may consider this old news, I think we can learn from it: 18-Year Old Texan, Herding Goats, Killed by U.S. Marine Corps Anti-Drug Patrol; Criminal Investigation of Shooting Underway

Don't shoot at Marines?

Old news? 97? That's like yesterday. Lemme see, 97...hey, I WAS one of those militarized counter drug guys...

Oh, lookie...500th post woohoo.

 

[BE Mike]

Actually, not what I was calling for at all. We already have the tools in place to remove the illegals among us. We just need to use them...on NON-CITIZENS.

Also I'm not willing to accept that trade off. There should be no trade off. No police state, no illegals. One does not have to lead to the other.

There hasn't been a concerted effort to remove interior illegal aliens for decades. Once they make it that far, they are pretty much home free, unless convicted of a crime and sent to prison. From what I read, it looks like somewhere around 25% of the US prison population is illegal aliens.

 

[BogWalker]

There hasn't been a concerted effort to remove interior illegal aliens for decades. Once they make it that far, they are pretty much home free, unless convicted of a crime and sent to prison. From what I read, it looks like somewhere around 25% of the US prison population is illegal aliens.

They are also one of the fastest growing demographics when it comes to street gang membership in the United States.

 

[Thor]

And that is why it needs to be done again.

I think this qualifies as hijacking however...so, there was this militia guy...

 

[BehindBlueI's]

Don't shoot at Marines?

Old news? 97? That's like yesterday. Lemme see, 97...hey, I WAS one of those militarized counter drug guys...

Oh, lookie...500th post woohoo.

The next year I was one of those militarized guys assisting Border Patrol. JTF-6.

 

[ChalupaCabras]

I like how at the end of the article they reference a previous incident where 7 militia memebrs were "mistaken for a DPS tactical team" ... and were put to work securing imigrants SUCSESSFULLY.

That right there should tell them everything they need to know, since they seem to be worried that "we don't even know who they [militia] are!".

 

[wabash]

was looking for a militia thread to post this link in.

mentions texas, milita, AND Indiana LTCH !

Militia men jailed: Handgun left in Stripes restroom implicates pair - Brownsville Herald: Premium