OC Activism

[MinuteMan47]

Fattist

What is Andre Carson doing to her!?

 

[dross]

IMO, this post was uncalled for.

I believe he was asking a serious question. How do you define "hassle"?
There have been several threads where there wasn't any hassling. Very few where there was.

Based on past discussions, I don't think it was a serious question at all. But if it was, I apologize to anyone who was offended.

By hassled, I mean asked to leave. In terms of police, I mean recieving a lecture, or being told they aren't allowed to open carry, or having the gun pulled out of the holster from behind, or any manner of things that have been posted on this board.

 

[MinuteMan47]

Getting this thread back on track...

I was hassled in the Castleton Gander Mountain once for OCing.

There was a lady at the door greeting people, she looked at my hip and asked if I had a case for my firearm.

I told her, "Yes. At home", and walked past. She ran off (to get the manager I suppose). I walked around the store for a while and then noticed two guys following me. I put down the Scent Away spray that I went in to purchase and NEVER returned.

 

[youngda9]

I put down the Scent Away spray that I went in to purchase and NEVER returned.

And you still smell to this day

 

[Tripp11]

I put down the Scent Away spray that I went in to purchase and NEVER returned.

Why didn't you open it, spray it all over yourself, and then hide? They would have never found you!

 

[gunsrfun]

Just wondering does anyone think that some people that OC go out looking for conflict. Doesn't arguing or yelling at someone for there lack of information poorly reflect on all people that OC.

 

[Expat]

I usually think that people who spell does as dose are looking for conflict...

 

[gunsrfun]

Thanks for the spell check. I now see the errors of my ways.

 

[youngda9]

Just wondering does anyone think that some people that OC go out looking for conflict. Doesn't arguing or yelling at someone for there lack of information poorly reflect on all people that OC.

Popcorn is ready...let the fun begin !

 

[dross]

Just wondering does anyone think that some people that OC go out looking for conflict. Doesn't arguing or yelling at someone for there lack of information poorly reflect on all people that OC.

If some people are OCing for activist reasons, then yes, they are seeking a conflict. That's how activism works - you exercise a right, and other people who want to take that right from you, or who don't want you to exercise that right come up to you and start a conflict.

Others are just exercising a right, don't want conflict, but it comes to them anyway.

 

[jsharmon7]

I think dross is making an excellent point. Posting about it on the internet doesn't really make a difference. I'm sure a handful of people will avoid that business in the future but not enough to matter. Consider also that the management probably won't notice a change in their bottom line or be able to attribute a change in business to their anti-gun stance. If you really want to make a difference then the idea put forth by dross is the way to go. If you just want to complain about it, then starting threads is the way to go. I'm not bashing those who start those types of threads, I'm just pointing out that they don't really change anything. Although I agree with dross, I don't think anything like this will come about because it's so much easier just to talk about it on the internet than to put forth the effort to make a difference. It's just human nature.

 

[gunsrfun]

If some people are OCing for activist reasons, then yes, they are seeking a conflict. That's how activism works - you exercise a right, and other people who want to take that right from you, or who don't want you to exercise that right come up to you and start a conflict.

Others are just exercising a right, don't want conflict, but it comes to them anyway.

Good point. Didn't really think about it that way. Sorry about the thread jack.

 

[dross]

Good point. Didn't really think about it that way. Sorry about the thread jack.

I don't think it was a thread jack. You're pretty new here, you don't know how many times some of this has been discussed.

 

[snowman46919]

I'm always game, but being hassled is not a super frequent occurence in my experience. I have OCed a LOT in the past 2-3 years, and I rarely get any comments about my gun. And most of the time when I do, the comments are positive.

The thread should be similar to the "Where did you OC today?", but it should be more strict in it's content as in, "Where did you get hassled for OCing today?"

Always, a disclaimer barring OC vs CC comments needs to be added, because those arguments take place everywhere else.

It took me 2 days to have everyone in my family come crashing down around me about it, but no businesses no.


Otherwise I like this idea and count me in

 

[Bapak2ja]

I just read through this thread again. I see a great divergence of opinion on several key points, such as the definition of "hassled," the purpose of OC (begging for a fight or exercising a right), what situations merit group response, et al. I came to the conclusion it will be extremely difficult to make this happen. It seems impossible to secure a unified opinion on anything related to this issue. I doubt we can secure an effective group action without the ability to agree on basic presuppositions.

We need basic definitions and guidelines regarding:
1. What constitutes inappropriate action by a company?
2. At what point is group action appropriate?
3. What is appropriate action by the OCer?
4. Is OCer provoking the confrontation?
5. What response by the OCer is acceptable?
6. What is an "excessive response" to the point that group action is appropriate?
7. Does the testimony of the OCer constitute sufficient grounds for action, or is there a need for confirmation by a witness? If so, how many witnesses are required?
8. Who makes the final determination that action is warranted?
9. Is there a progressive scale of responses? Initial action-letters; second action-demonstration at the site with presentation of boycott letters; third action-molotov cocktails? OK, it's a joke! Just kidding! But you get the idea.

Without some careful planning, we will have serious problems with this. Do we really want to do this? If so, we need some leaders, some planners, some guidelines, etc. Volunteers?

 

[Hooker]

Perhaps a better response, instead of trying to rally the troops to flood a business with letters, is to appoint a willing ambassador to represent this group when someone like this happens and send one letter to the appropriate people.

The letter would include a recap of the event in question, a member count of this group and their designations (I'm sure there are plenty of military, ex-military, doctors, lawyers, cops, etc., who are gun owners), and the reasons why the group has decided to no longer give them our business.

Of course, this depends on finding someone who is willing to take up the responsibility But then the store owners will see solidarity in the group instead of individual members.

Just a thought.

 

[Bapak2ja]

Perhaps a better response, instead of trying to rally the troops to flood a business with letters, is to appoint a willing ambassador to represent this group when someone like this happens and send one letter to the appropriate people.

The letter would include a recap of the event in question, a member count of this group and their designations (I'm sure there are plenty of military, ex-military, doctors, lawyers, cops, etc., who are gun owners), and the reasons why the group has decided to no longer give them our business.

Of course, this depends on finding someone who is willing to take up the responsibility But then the store owners will see solidarity in the group instead of individual members.

Just a thought.

+1. Better idea than a group action.

 

[Sylvain]

I find those threads interesting.I do not OC and I dont plan on doing it (just because I think OC is not the best option FOR ME) but im ready to defend the right of my fellow INGOwners to OC if they wish to do so.
Even if I CC and its never a problem for me I feel concerned that other INGOwners are asked to leave a store or asked to hide their gun because they OC.
If I go to a place with a "no gun sign" I will drop a "no gun = no money card", maybe talk to the manager if I have time.
Without telling that im carrying myself I would still tell them about the rights to carry both OC and CC and how stupid their sign is.

 

[mk2ja]

Define hassled.

If you're talking about the BW3 event, IMO, that's borderline, and shouldn't be counted as hassling.

Hmmmm.....DURING his meal he was asked to either cover it up or put it in the car or else they were calling the police.

I don't like to be [strike]bothered[/strike] HASSLED while I'm eating. I'd count it.

Just in case anybody wonders what you're talking about, here's that thread.
Hassled by Buffalo Wild Wings for OC at Dupont, Fort Wayne - INGunOwners

I'd call it "hassled". From New Oxford American Dictionary 3rd edition © 2010 by Oxford University Press, Inc.

hassle |ˈhasəl| informal
noun
irritating inconvenience
• a disagreement; a quarrel:

As opposed to this

harass |həˈras, ˈharəs|
verb [ with obj. ]
subject to aggressive pressure or intimidation

I wouldn't say I was harassed, but I was definitely hassled. The manager's actions constituted an irritating inconvenience.

By hassled, I mean asked to leave.

Or we could all use that as the definition for this thread. Either way.

OC has never been my issue, but I read with interest all the threads about people getting hassled in stores and either talking to management or just vowing never to shop there again. Why not use the power of the INGO membership to take a more active stance?

I suggest that someone open a thread about this where the rules of the thread are that if you get hassled in a store, or perhaps even by a police department, your task is to now get the name and mailing and emailing address of every store manager, or every police station or police chief from wherever you're hassled and post it. Then others on INGO would be encouraged to drop an email or letter to that business and tell them why you won't be shopping there, or in the case of the police, why they are violating IN law.

Some of the better writers here could post sample letters that could be used.

It seems like it would be a lot more effective than just not going back, which to most of these stores is a drop in the bucket anyway. Also, it occurs to me that eventually the odds are that you'll run into enough stupid employees at enough places that you won't have anywhere to shop.

Be fair, though. Treat all the gun shops who don't allow firearms the same.

Also, sounds like a good idea to me.

 

[Benny]

Based on past discussions, I don't think it was a serious question at all. But if it was, I apologize to anyone who was offended.

By hassled, I mean asked to leave. In terms of police, I mean recieving a lecture, or being told they aren't allowed to open carry, or having the gun pulled out of the holster from behind, or any manner of things that have been posted on this board.

I also thought it was a fair question, because your definition of hassled being "asked to leave" is MUCH different than mine...I completely agree with mk2ja thinking he was "hassled" at BW3s.

I really like the idea of this thread though...It needs more defined guidelines, but I love the premise.