When training and equipment fail

[Pitmaster]

I don't often get involved in discussing tactics, training, self-defense legalities, etc. There is something I've always been curious about regarding self-defense and concealed carry and the outcomes of violent encounters. Here, and every other internet board we use successful outcomes to justify our positions. Every time there is a news article about an elderly person, mother, or anyone defeating the criminals I think people tend to believe that carrying a gun, awareness, skill, and training we will always win.

Here's a story about someone carrying a gun, being aware, having skills and training who was not successful living through the encounter.

Scott Severns Story Scott is a hero!

I only post this as a reminder that we should never be overconfident in our abilities and training.

 

[the1kidd03]

I agree with your point to an extent, but this is an incredibly vague story to demonstrate it.

There is a fine line between confidence and arrogance. Confidence includes knowing one's limitations just as much as his capabilities. Arrogance is simply a belief in the lack of limitations. I'm very confident in my abilities, but there are certain ventures I know I would not fare well in. Those are the areas which one should strive to train further in than others sometimes.

 

[rhino]

No guarantees in life. The best we can do is manage risks and try to push the odds of success toward our favor by preparation.

 

[Pitmaster]

I live in South Bend. To provide more information the officer and his girlfriend were out for a walk in what I would describe as safe a neighborhood as can be in South Bend. They were not in a dangerous area. While walking along 2 guys pulled up in a car and began the robbery. I assume that since he was a police officer, carrying his gun, and was at least reasonably alert and aware to his environment at the time he as alert and aware as most of us would be in a similar situation.

The point I want to make is that the internet chatter about self-defense shootings and discussion is biased towards success outcomes. I'm sure many of them are but we don't know how many aren't.

Most of us practice and train correctly using our firearms and I'm sure Nick did too. What are the odds of 2 17 year old punk thugs being more skilled than 95% of us. Slim, but they can get lucky and unfortunately these two were.

 

[the1kidd03]

The point I want to make is that the internet chatter about self-defense shootings and discussion is biased towards success outcomes. I'm sure many of them are but we don't know how many aren't.

The majority are by far biased in favor of success because it simply works out that way. That's why it's important to train. When you consider there are well over 80 million legal firearms owners, NOT including police who are required to have them. Then you consider there are only around 50,000 firearms related deaths and injuries every year. It is possible, but it's highly unlikely and that's why training is so important. To better sway the odds in your favor. Anyone who's serious about their safety should always seek appropriate training. It's not about an ego boost but rather building the necessary skill set to stay alive and in turn this will also build confidence.

 

[Goodcat]

I live in South Bend. To provide more information the officer and his girlfriend were out for a walk in what I would describe as safe a neighborhood as can be in South Bend. They were not in a dangerous area. While walking along 2 guys pulled up in a car and began the robbery. I assume that since he was a police officer, carrying his gun, and was at least reasonably alert and aware to his environment at the time he as alert and aware as most of us would be in a similar situation.

The point I want to make is that the internet chatter about self-defense shootings and discussion is biased towards success outcomes. I'm sure many of them are but we don't know how many aren't.

Most of us practice and train correctly using our firearms and I'm sure Nick did too. What are the odds of 2 17 year old punk thugs being more skilled than 95% of us. Slim, but they can get lucky and unfortunately these two were.

I would agree here. In combat, for instance, some unlucky few get killed not due to lack of skills or training, but being at the wrong angle in the cross hairs. A gang banger can shoot at you sideways with "1 clip of 9" in his high point at 25 feet and there is always a chance you will get hit from the 1st or 2nd random rounds before you get a shot off of take cover. Best to stay situationally preparred, use your best judgement and pray for tomorrow. Never assume any amount of training takes the win. However, "victory favors the prepared". There is no reason you can't weigh the odds HEAVILY in your favor. In this case, luck didn't help.

 

[SSGSAD]

PLEASE don't take this the wrong way, but WHY wasn't he wearing body armor ?????

 

[rgrimm01]

PLEASE don't take this the wrong way, but WHY wasn't he wearing body armor ?????

My assumption may be incorrect but I get the feeling that from the reference to "his female friend" that it may have been a "social encounter" that they were participants(date?). If so, I would think that most females would find body armor to be a turn off...

Clarification:
I mean absolutely no disrespect. If this was indeed a date or a social event, might explain why no body armor.

 

[Bigshep]

No guarantees in life. The best we can do is manage risks and try to push the odds of success toward our favor by preparation.

True true true true true true true. And keep it up too. You get rusty easier than you might think. Just seems like the norm that people think a single class is super efficient. Not saying that its not a good idea to take at least one. It's an absolute great idea, but you always want to be working on getting better and better with your skills. Doesn't mean that bad luck wont still kill you, but you would be giving yourself more and more of an edge with proper continued training and practice.

 

[Mechy]

No guarantees in life. The best we can do is manage risks and try to push the odds of success toward our favor by preparation.

I'm with rhino, I see life as a game of odds. I just try to keep the odds in my favor.

 

[jeremy]

When training and equipment fail...

You Improvise...

 

[Garrett]

I would agree here. In combat, for instance, some unlucky few get killed not due to lack of skills or training, but being at the wrong angle in the cross hairs. A gang banger can shoot at you sideways with "1 clip of 9" in his high point at 25 feet and there is always a chance you will get hit from the 1st or 2nd random rounds before you get a shot off of take cover. Best to stay situationally preparred, use your best judgement and pray for tomorrow. Never assume any amount of training takes the win. However, "victory favors the prepared". There is no reason you can't weigh the odds HEAVILY in your favor. In this case, luck didn't help.

+1

 

[Mackey]

Wonder if he would have been better off giving up his wallet, especially in consideration that it was two to one and that he had a date. There's no way to know, but I think it bears consideration. It seems most training and fantasy is geared towards winning the gunfight and not in looking for another option. Just because you have a gun doesn't mean it's always the right thing to use it.
NOTE: I'm not second guessing ... just wondering.