Winchester Model 70 .30-06

[gregr]

Are there any true rifle guru`s here? I have a forthcoming dilemma...I am dying to own a Winchester Model 70, .30-06. It`s well known that the pre-`64 is the holy grail of hunting rifles, and I`d be open to saving up for a pre-`64. So that begs two questions;

Question one; Is the pre-`64 Model 70 the way to go, or would a new, or newer Model 70 be just as good, or even just good enough? I can`t imagine that I`ll ever hunt white-tails anywhere but Indiana, but I still just want to own this traditional, classic rifle. Would a brand new Model 70, or even a slightly used one be just as good overall?

Question two: If I were to want to delve into the pre-`64 Model 70, what do I look for? Obviously, no rust, the stock and forearm in good shape, etc. But what about the rifling? Are these older rifles likely to be shot out? What should I be aware of? What questions would I need to know to ask the seller? Is the fit and finish strictly cosmetic? Or does the fit and finish affect the overall performance and dependability? Please help me if you have true rifle knowledge on what to look for; what to avoid.

 

[natdscott]

Lug condition, bolt face condition, condition of blueing on the bolt handle, wear patterns on the bolt and/or bolt jeweling, condition of the bluing on the M70 wing safety, muzzle gauging (maybe), and chamber gauging are the best ways to make qualitative judgements about round count.

A bore scope like the Teslong can reveal a lot as well. You look at the throat as far as how evenly the lands are washed, how much erosion there is, and the condition of the bore in the first few inches in front of the chamber.

With a scope, you are also looking for abuse: how was it cleaned over the years? Your older military “educated” shooters sometimes preferred to “scrub” the barrel with bronze brushes from the muzzle. For a lot of reasons, that can ruin a barrel’s accuracy. You can find examples in the literature of service rifles actually having the lands worn down to almost nothing at the muzzle, from the cleaning rods, used so regularly under the supervision of overzealous officers.

The pre-64 M70 .30 Gov’t 06 is worth your wait, brother.

It will make you feel like an American all over again, and take you back to a time when people agreed that that was plenty.

 

[drm-hp]

In a fit of utter stupidity I sold my 30Gov't06 for some unremembered sum of $. I hunted high and low with that rifle. My longest whitetail kill was made with this rifle, 383 yrds. with my daughter in the hay bales on the ground with me.
I still have my 300 H&H though.

Mauser 98's and Winchester 70's just seem right.

 

[wingrider1800]

I don't think you can go wrong with any of them. I'm partial to the ones made from 64 thru about 69 but that's just me. Find one that strikes your fancy and go with it. They are all fine guns.

 

[Mongo59]

I am a sucker for anything 'Winnie'...

 

[gregr]

Lug condition, bolt face condition, condition of blueing on the bolt handle, wear patterns on the bolt and/or bolt jeweling, condition of the bluing on the M70 wing safety, muzzle gauging (maybe), and chamber gauging are the best ways to make qualitative judgements about round count.

A bore scope like the Teslong can reveal a lot as well. You look at the throat as far as how evenly the lands are washed, how much erosion there is, and the condition of the bore in the first few inches in front of the chamber.

With a scope, you are also looking for abuse: how was it cleaned over the years? Your older military “educated” shooters sometimes preferred to “scrub” the barrel with bronze brushes from the muzzle. For a lot of reasons, that can ruin a barrel’s accuracy. You can find examples in the literature of service rifles actually having the lands worn down to almost nothing at the muzzle, from the cleaning rods, used so regularly under the supervision of overzealous officers.

The pre-64 M70 .30 Gov’t 06 is worth your wait, brother.

It will make you feel like an American all over again, and take you back to a time when people agreed that that was plenty.

Thanks much for that tutorial! Great information!

What would your recommendation be as to buy a new(er) one versus a pre-`64? Sounds like there`s a lot to check, which is impossible to do buying from Gun Broker, which is a high probability of where a rifle would come for me. A newer one is more likely to not have any serious issues.

 

[Winamac]

I am a sucker for anything 'Winnie'...

^^^^^ This^^^^^^^^^my weakness is pre 64 model 94's.

 

[gregr]

^^^^^ This^^^^^^^^^my weakness is pre 64 model 94's.

The Model `94 I just bought is "just" a Ranger, and it was manufactured in 1993. It`s got really great wood for a Ranger model. I hope to have it forever and kill many deer with it.

 

[MrSmitty]

Pre-64's are the grail, but sometimes you might find one priced...ah...right... In the 90's I found a Pre-64 Model 70 in .300 H&H, for at the time price of $250, found out it had been converted ( I think )from 300 win mag. My friend bought it, and took it to a gun show, and happened to talk to a guy who saw it, and recognized it as his former gun, that he hunted with in Alaska a few times.....sorry to diverge from the OP's post.....Depends on how deep your pockets are...

 

[gregr]

Pre-64's are the grail, but sometimes you might find one priced...ah...right... In the 90's I found a Pre-64 Model 70 in .300 H&H, for at the time price of $250, found out it had been converted ( I think )from 300 win mag. My friend bought it, and took it to a gun show, and happened to talk to a guy who saw it, and recognized it as his former gun, that he hunted with in Alaska a few times.....sorry to diverge from the OP's post.....Depends on how deep your pockets are...

No problem at all with the tale you told. That`s interesting stuff.

 

[gregr]

I guess aside from what to check the condition of on a pre-`64 Model 70, are there particular versions you would desire? Sporter Model 70? Feather weight? Super Grade? Etc.? This is such and expensive and once in a lifetime purchase, I`ve got to get this right...

 

[drm-hp]

Winchester M70's in particular have a very strong following with alot of research material available.
Get a copy of "The Riflemans Rifle ", this would be a great place to start.
Go to a place where you can touch and talk to as many as possible, the Tulsa gunshow or if possible an OGCA show.

 

[two70]

I guess aside from what to check the condition of on a pre-`64 Model 70, are there particular versions you would desire? Sporter Model 70? Feather weight? Super Grade? Etc.? This is such and expensive and once in a lifetime purchase, I`ve got to get this right...

IMO, a Featherweight in .30-06 is going to be a handful and not something I'd want to shoot much from the bench.

 

[natdscott]

IMO, a Featherweight in .30-06 is going to be a handful and not something I'd want to shoot much from the bench.

Excellent! I knew you’d happen uppn this thread, sooner or later.

I very much like the full sporter -06, but it should be noted that the older .30 barrels were almost a magnum sporter contour as it was…by “today’s” standards. They aren’t extremely light.

A 5.5-6 lb FWT -06 would be snappy for sure.

Honestly, I’d probably still like it, but I shoot SOMETHING 4-5 days a week, and probably have more than one screw loose.

Unless it were .257 Roberts or lower on recoil, or I knew the person to be a recoil-experienced shooter, I’d not recommend a FWT as a first M70, much less a “forever/only” M70.

 

[76Too]

Here I was thinking I was the only one looking for one of these rifles currently.

Well shucks...if anyone has two they’re willing to sell?!?!

 

[Mongo59]

I have been looking for one for my brother. He has a stash of Rem 700's and could use a 70 to complement the accumulation...

 

[two70]

Excellent! I knew you’d happen uppn this thread, sooner or later.

I very much like the full sporter -06, but it should be noted that the older .30 barrels were almost a magnum sporter contour as it was…by “today’s” standards. They aren’t extremely light.

A 5.5-6 lb FWT -06 would be snappy for sure.

Honestly, I’d probably still like it, but I shoot SOMETHING 4-5 days a week, and probably have more than one screw loose.

Unless it were .257 Roberts or lower on recoil, or I knew the person to be a recoil-experienced shooter, I’d not recommend a FWT as a first M70, much less a “forever/only” M70.

Yes, it's just about impossible to keep me out of a thread on bolt actions, especially the M70, lol.

I had a newer Featherweight in .270 and it was definitely the snappiest .270 I've owned. I ended up letting it go because it felt whippy in my hands. I like a little more weight to help steady my shots and help keep my rifle swinging on follow up shots. It was also all too easy to overwhelm the rifle with glass. IMO, the modern version of the Sporter is than light enough for me and I even prefer the heavier older models.

A .257 Bob in the FWT would be awesome! I'd even take a .25-06. To me the FWT is a rifle you buy for a specific purpose, it's great in its niche but not as great as a general purpose rifle. It is definitely one that needs to be handled as much as possible before purchasing and not the one I'd get if I was only going to own one.

 

[DadSmith]

Are there any true rifle guru`s here? I have a forthcoming dilemma...I am dying to own a Winchester Model 70, .30-06. It`s well known that the pre-`64 is the holy grail of hunting rifles, and I`d be open to saving up for a pre-`64. So that begs two questions;

Question one; Is the pre-`64 Model 70 the way to go, or would a new, or newer Model 70 be just as good, or even just good enough? I can`t imagine that I`ll ever hunt white-tails anywhere but Indiana, but I still just want to own this traditional, classic rifle. Would a brand new Model 70, or even a slightly used one be just as good overall?

Question two: If I were to want to delve into the pre-`64 Model 70, what do I look for? Obviously, no rust, the stock and forearm in good shape, etc. But what about the rifling? Are these older rifles likely to be shot out? What should I be aware of? What questions would I need to know to ask the seller? Is the fit and finish strictly cosmetic? Or does the fit and finish affect the overall performance and dependability? Please help me if you have true rifle knowledge on what to look for; what to avoid.

Isn't that the same rifle Carlos Hathcock used in Vietnam? Pre 64 Winchester Model 70 30-06?

 

[natdscott]

Isn't that the same rifle Carlos Hathcock used in Vietnam? Pre 64 Winchester Model 70 30-06?

That’s the word. A heavy barrel M70 with a Unertl.

One could do a helluva lot worse, even now, on a Highpower or F-Class range.

 

[Dinny]

I have to second the recommendation to purchase and read Roger Rule's book The Rifleman's Rifle. There are tang and bolt handle variations in different eras of the magnificent Pre 64. Rule's book does a great job of explaining all the differences. I'm in the process of building a custom hunting rifle off a 1955 action. The current production BACO rifles are quite impressive and I have enjoyed hunting with them. My only gripe with them is the trigger. It was totally uncalled for to change from the time-proven open design triggers.

Below are my 35 Remington, 35 Whelen, and 358 Winchester rifles. I like 35s!