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  1. #11
    Marksman atalon's Avatar
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    I defer to sloughfoot but just for reference here is a reload I bought where you can see the ridges of the cannalure and how the top of the neck is crimped.


  2. #12
    Grandmaster sloughfoot's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by atalon View Post
    I defer to sloughfoot but just for reference here is a reload I bought where you can see the ridges of the cannalure and how the top of the neck is crimped.

    This is exactly how my 55 FMJ reloads look. And also the factory 55 FMJ ammo looks.
    Red Fire 372

  3. #13
    Sharpshooter silentvoice71's Avatar
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    I light crimp everything i reload. Cheap insurance.
    Early Cyler fan club member#1

  4. #14
    LoaderHolic billybob44's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by sloughfoot View Post
    I admit, I don't understand all your questions, but when reloading for an AR15, you should always full length resize.

    I have never seen a 223 case that was too long. Anything 1.760 or shorter is good.
    Once fired brass can very often be too long-1.765" or +. If you load cannalured bullets+want the crimp to be consistaint, they should be trimmed to 1.750".

    Quote Originally Posted by netsecurity View Post
    I actually did prime quite a few before learning that I needed to resize new cases. I gently popped out the primers and resized them all, discarding any that were problematic. But that alone doesn't guarantee that the entire shape is correct does it? It primarily just ensures the mouth is good I think. Otherwise, we wouldn't ever need a collet sizing die, if the full length resizing did a comprehensive job of resizing, right? That is the way I understand it. Since I had about 50 new cases that had too thick of a rim, I am concerned that there are others which are misshapen in some way that is unnoticeable to the eye, or the resizing die.
    Are you absolutely sure that this is NEW LC Brass--NOT pull down ammo?? All pull down ammo-brass should be at least neck sized.

    Quote Originally Posted by sloughfoot View Post
    I have never seen the need to FL resize new cases. Or neck size new cases. Some may think that the case mouth may be mis-shapened and be concerned about that. I just have never been concerned about it unless it is obviously smashed. In that case you need to open it up so the bullet can go in.

    I would re-consider the discarded cases. I don't know what "problematic" means. If it fits in the chamber, you are GTG.

    You are worrying about things that don't matter in the huge chamber of your AR15. bench rest chambers are different.
    Slough, you usually are 'Spot On' on your posts, but I can NOT agree with this..
    Us Reloaders DO take pride in our work, yes, most anyone can make something to "Fit" into an AR chamber, but that is NOT the idea of reloading!
    Not just me, but most (every that I have read) manuals will tell a reloader to size ALL brass-either FL or at least neck size.

    The idea of reloading is to build GREAT-ACCURATE loads that a person can take pride in with the way they shoot AND look.
    Consistaintsy is the key here--NOT just something that will "Fit" into an AR chamber...Bill.

    PS: Sorry my Spell Check Foo is down..
    NRA Life Member since 1976+Outdoor Sportsman

  5. #15
    Leo
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    Literally 10's of thousands of .223 match bullets loaded over 15 years of competition. 52 grain, 69 grain, 75/77 grain. NEVER crimped a single one. I do not crimp my 55 gr soft point hunting bullets even though they have a cannelure. Always used a proper powder that fills the case so you cannot get bullet setback. Full length sized every one.

    A problem with range brass can occur if the guy that loaded it before you didn't know what he is doing. Some dies will allow you to push the shoulder back way too far before it bottoms on the shell holder. When fired, that brass starts stretching about 5/8 inch up from the base. This thin spot decays pretty quickly, and when it breaks during firing, your extractor pulls out what looks like a .380 case, and the body and the shoulder stays in the chamber.

  6. #16
    rvb
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    Quote Originally Posted by sloughfoot View Post
    I believe your loaded rounds are safe to shoot. I can't see the possibility of a problem. Without a cannelure, I don't think you should crimp. Neck tension is more than enough to keep the bullet firmly in place.

    Bullet setback in a AR does not happen unless you are having feeding problems. If you are having feeding problems, you will want to fix that and the possibility of bullet setback also goes away.

    Shoot them and report back accuracy with your crimped versus uncrimped bullets. I would be curious to know your experience.

    As for me, I never crimp my match and varmint AR ammo, even if there is a cannelure. I do crimp my 55FMJ military type ammo, but only with a Lee Factory crimp die.
    +1 to all this.

    except I no longer crimp anything. Too damn lazy to set and un-set the crimp die. If no crimp is good enough for my match 69s, it's good enough for my 55s for plinking.

    -rvb
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  7. #17
    Grandmaster sloughfoot's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by billybob44 View Post
    Slough, you usually are 'Spot On' on your posts, but I can NOT agree with this..
    Us Reloaders DO take pride in our work, yes, most anyone can make something to "Fit" into an AR chamber, but that is NOT the idea of reloading!
    Not just me, but most (every that I have read) manuals will tell a reloader to size ALL brass-either FL or at least neck size.

    The idea of reloading is to build GREAT-ACCURATE loads that a person can take pride in with the way they shoot AND look.
    Consistaintsy is the key here--NOT just something that will "Fit" into an AR chamber...Bill.

    PS: Sorry my Spell Check Foo is down..
    Yes, but it really does not matter performance-wise.

    Everybody realizes that the new brass that you buy was on its way to the factory loading line when it was taken off and boxed up into boxes to be sold by itself? By fate it was not turned into very good match or hunting ammo?

    I don't disagree with anyones decision to neck or FL resize new brass. I just have found it to be not necessary. Ugly dull brass shoots just as well as jewel polished brass.

    Red Fire 372

  8. #18
    Marksman whippo's Avatar
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    If you are using the lee factory crimp die, the instructions clearly say a non cantilevered bullet is perfectly fine.

  9. #19
    Grandmaster cobber's Avatar
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    Never crimp... Like RVB I'm too lazy to set up a new die.
    Would you again describe what you saw as you saw the defendant carrying this owl?--Ballard v. State, 1974

  10. #20
    Shooter
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    I just wanted to update this thread for accuracy. First I've read in the 2013 Lee catalog that the rifle crimping die is safe to use on all bullets, even without a cannelure, and even is supposed to work well if not perfectly sized. (Their die is somewhat unique, so this information doesn't necessarily apply to other brands). It says basically that their crimp makes for more accurate shots either way.

    Second, I read somewhere (Lyman's I think) that you should always check length, even on new brass, especially bottleneck cases. i did check the length on all my new LC brass, and found no need to resize or destroy any. I think I'm supposed to also chamfer/debur them, which I will do. And I wanted to point out also that I found a tool in the lee catalog made specifically for removing swollen rims, which was the main defect I encountered, so apparently this is not an unusual thing.

    Finally, I wanted to correct my mistaken belief that the collet or neck sizing die was required for range brass. I had that totally backwards. I just learned that the normal full sizing die allows you to use any range brass. As its name implies, it makes the shell conform to factory standards, for use in any gun. It is the neck sizing die that can only be used for brass to fire in the exact same gun. That adds a fraction more accuracy by NOT resetting to factory specs, and really only competition shooters use those, so they don't come with most die sets. i've read warnings and heard myths about reloaded ammo for so many years now and have been perplexed by this, but now I know it is much simpler than I thought--I thought bottleneck cases required a special "advanced" step to make safe (sigh), but the standard resizing die should eliminate all worries.

    Amazingly, I think reading the Lee catalog enlightened me more than reading Lyman's and everything else to this point! Now I feel like I'm really starting to understand the basics well. I hope this helps someone else who may be confused by similar issues.
    Last edited by netsecurity; 07-23-2013 at 01:21.

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