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[Slim400]

Received this email today in response to an inquiry about Win231 Powder.
"Winchester 231 certainly has been hard to get. The plant that makes Winchester powders does not want to make 231 as well as a few other powders. These older technology powders have different chemistry than the new powders and this older chemistry makes it much slower to make powder: basically, you can make about 2.5 times as many pounds of new chemistry powder in the time it takes to make 1 pound of old chemistry powder. During the process of making the old powders, the waste stream created is huge compared to the waste stream of the new chemistry powders. Chemical waste is very expensive to get rid of. So, the plant wants to phase out the old chemistry powders and replace them with new chemistry powders. While they are still making 231, the amount is being reduced and the amount of new powder such as Titegroup and Longshot is being increased.
Now, we are kind of stuck in the middle. The market is demanding 231 but the maker is not wanting to produce the powder. The result is, over time, 231 is going to go away. Shooters should begin using other powders as they can.
Mike Daly
Hodgdon Family of Fine Propellants
Hodgdon Smokeless Powder
IMR Powder Company
Winchester Smokeless Propellants
GOEX Blackpowder"

 

[drop45]

Enter CFE Pistol.

 

[BogWalker]

While it is unfortunate for those who enjoy it, there are many alternatives that work equally as well.

Let's look at it this way, the more powder the manufacturers can put out the better.

 

[Gluemanz28]

I started out with W231 but got away from it pretty quick once I tried other powders. I agree that producing 2.5 times more powder is the way to go.

 

[indygunguy]

That is very interesting.

And I think drop45's comment above is exactly right.

 

[AmmoManAaron]

I'm so sick of this. This is the exact same line of reasoning that was used to kill SR-4756, SR-4759, SR-7625, and PB. For those of us who shoot the old classics for which load data is scarce, things like this are a real pain. Especially when you consider that the powder marketers aren't publishing data for the old calibers using the new powders that are being forced on us. More powder is better overall and I would be fine with a temporary suspension of the manufacture of certain powders for this reason, but killing them off entirely is a load of crap.

 

[VERT]

So what are the best modern alternatives? TiteGroup possibly. Alliant BE86? I don't know anything about CFE pistol

 

[Never A Victim]

I switched from 231 to Titegroup and never looked back.

 

[wsenefeld]

I use Titegroup and HP38. Never a problem out of either. The Titegroup makes the best sounding subsonic rounds through a suppressor that I've ever heard.

147gr pill
3.3gr Titegroup

 

[BE Mike]

Interesting since Winchester 231 and HP-38 are identical powders. Hodgdon doesn't manufacture any powders of which I am aware, but they may now actually manufacture a couple. They buy the powder from the manufacturers and package it. Alliant does actually manufacture many of their own powders. I hope I don't ever hear any such idiotic nonsense from them.

 

[Leo]

WHy is it that everything I like gets discontinued? Motorcycles, cars, firearms, and now pistol powder.

 

[BE Mike]

WHy is it that everything I like gets discontinued? Motorcycles, cars, firearms, and now pistol powder.

You probably like things that work well and last. These days the companies just care about the bottom line. I actually can't see the purpose in marketing two identical powders under different brand names.

 

[redwingshooter]

Though the real question is, are they going to still make HP-38 in a good supply or will it disappear too?

 

[AmmoManAaron]

Though the real question is, are they going to still make HP-38 in a good supply or will it disappear too?

It's the same powder just with a different label, made by the same manufacturer (St. Marks Powders), marketed by the same company (Hodgdon), so I would say if Win-231 is going away, HP-38 will be going away as well.

 

[redwingshooter]

It's the same powder just with a different label, made by the same manufacturer (St. Marks Powders), marketed by the same company (Hodgdon), so I would say if Win-231 is going away, HP-38 will be going away as well.

That was my guess too. Such a shame if it actually happens.

 

[x10]

so whats so hard about formulating a new process powder that mimics 231, I don't care how it's made as long as 5.5 gr still shoves my 200gr swc out the end of the barrel

 

[BE Mike]

That was my guess too. Such a shame if it actually happens.

I have a feeling if HP-38 and Winchester get discontinued that Alliant might come up with a substitute. They did it with Clay Dot.

 

[VERT]

I think Alliant BE-86 might be a good substitute. He only problem is that load data for newer powders is limited.

 

[BE Mike]

I think Alliant BE-86 might be a good substitute. He only problem is that load data for newer powders is limited.

Actually working up loads can be interesting. Back to the drawing board! Break out the chronograph and the machine rest!

 

[straight-shooter]

I've been running the chrono most of the summer so far. I'm another big fan of W231/HP-38 but I have to say that I'm content with CFE Pistol. It requires a tad more powder per round but it's quite impressive.