Did "Iran" really threaten to "wipe Israel off the map"?

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  • rambone

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    You've heard it hundreds of thousands of times on Fox News.

    "Iran wants to wipe Israel off the map." :nailbite:

    The trouble is that this quote has been butchered and turned into war propaganda.

    It is repetitiously misquoted in order to bring acceptance to an offensive war against Iran in the near future.

    The actual quote is, “This occupation regime over Jerusalem must vanish from the arena of time.”

    It was uttered 30 years ago by a dead man, Ayatollah Khomeini.

    President Mahmoud Ahmadinejad quoted the late Khomeini in a speech, and the warhawks took off with it in order to justify a fresh new war.
    Did Ahmadinejad really say Israel should be "wiped off the map"? - The Washington Post
    Then, specialists such as Juan Cole of the University of Michigan and Arash Norouzi of the Mossadegh Project pointed out that the original statement in Persian did not say that Israel should be wiped from the map, but instead that it would collapse.

    Cole said this week that in the 1980s Khomeini gave a speech in which he said in Persian “Een rezhim-i eshghalgar-i Quds bayad az sahneh-i ruzgar mahv shaved.” This means, “This occupation regime over Jerusalem must vanish from the arena of time.” But then anonymous wire service translators rendered Khomeini as saying that Israel “must be wiped off the face of the map,” which Cole and Nourouzi say is inaccurate.

    Ahmadinejad slightly misquoted Khomeini, substituting “safheh-i ruzgar,” or “page of time" for "sahneh-i ruzgar" or “arena of time.” But in any case, the old translation was dug up and used again by the Iranian news agency, Cole says. In fact, that’s how it was presented for years on Ahmadinejad’s English-language Web site, as the Times noted in a somewhat defensive article on the translation debate.
     

    TheWabbit

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    Yes, the Deputy Defense Minister Ahmad Vahidi said it two weeks ago in response to Israel's threats against the peaceful nuclear facilities.

    "Iran’s warriors are ready and willing to wipe Israel off the map," Vahidi said.

    --

    I'm just posting what I've read. Verification will be difficult.
     

    SemperFiUSMC

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    You've heard it hundreds of thousands of times on Fox News.

    "Iran wants to wipe Israel off the map." :nailbite:

    The trouble is that this quote has been butchered and turned into war propaganda.

    It is repetitiously misquoted in order to bring acceptance to an offensive war against Iran in the near future.

    The actual quote is, “This occupation regime over Jerusalem must vanish from the arena of time.”

    It was uttered 30 years ago by a dead man, Ayatollah Khomeini.

    President Mahmoud Ahmadinejad quoted the late Khomeini in a speech, and the warhawks took off with it in order to justify a fresh new war.

    This occupation regime over Jeruselum (Israel) must vanish from the arena of time.

    Sure sounds the same as "wiped from the map" to me, if not in actual words than in spirit. Enlighten me - how exactly is it different?

    Oh, and it wasn't uttered by a dead man. It was uttered by the supreme leader of a country that overran our embassy and took our citizens hostage. I realize that means absolutely nothing to you or your ilk, but to many of the rest of us it was an act of war that was never answered.

    I have to admit I'm not in search of a difference to support my anti-war-at-any-cost-including-appeasement agenda, nor do I live in denial that the world is a dangerous place.
     

    BillyT

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    If the western media did skew and I have zero doubts it has. To me it only sounds like Iran would like to see a change in leadership not to nuke. Some Israelis I've talked with say Israel is on the wrong path. His problems sounded much like our own. I really doubt Iran is looking for war it's lose lose for them.
     

    rambone

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    This occupation regime over Jeruselum (Israel) must vanish from the arena of time.

    Sure sounds the same as "wiped from the map" to me, if not in actual words than in spirit. Enlighten me - how exactly is it different?
    For one thing the subject of the sentence is a "regime" and not the state of Israel.

    I can think of a few regimes I feel the same way about.

    That doesn't imply war and isn't a threat.

    Oh, and it wasn't uttered by a dead man. It was uttered by the supreme leader of a country that overran our embassy and took our citizens hostage. I realize that means absolutely nothing to you or your ilk, but to many of the rest of us it was an act of war that was never answered.
    He died in 1989. FYI.

    The country was in revolution, ousting the American-installed dictator. I'm not surprised our embassy was no longer welcome. The inside didn't heed the warning to leave, and after 100 days, Iran reclaimed its soil.

    They were reacting to an act of war that the United States initiated in 1953.

    Operation Ajax


    I have to admit I'm not in search of a difference to support my anti-war-at-any-cost-including-appeasement agenda, nor do I live in denial that the world is a dangerous place.

    You appease the Military-Industrial Complex with your find-a-war-to-wage-at-any-cost-including-genocide mentality.

    Breathe deep. Let go of some of that fear.
     

    thebishopp

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    Rambome, you have to be aware that facts don't really mean anything.

    Besides all that stuff is just propaganda put out by our "enemies" in attempt to appeal to all you anti-war pansies. You are either for the war or you are a commie... I mean terrorist.
     

    Kirk Freeman

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    Did "Iran" really threaten to "wipe Israel off the map"?

    Yes, they do it every day; Iran is very up front about it.

    Iran funds terrorists groups that attack Israel every day.

    Iran's Supreme Leader Threatens Israel, U.S. - Middle East - News - Israel National News

    Iran has not ruled out a first strike on Israel once they achieve nuclear weapons:

    http://www.nytimes.com/2012/02/22/w...lear-sites.html?_r=3&r=1&scp=2&sq=iran&st=cse

    Fortunately Israel has not lost its mind and feels no guilt for living:

    http://www.haaretz.com/news/diploma...me-leader-is-world-s-greatest-threat-1.360021
     

    SemperFiUSMC

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    For one thing the subject of the sentence is a "regime" and not the state of Israel.

    Regime:

    1. a mode or system of rule or government.
    2. a ruling or prevailing system.
    3. a government in power.
    4. the period during which a particular government or ruling system is in power.

    I would say 2 & 3 describe the state of Israel.

    I can think of a few regimes I feel the same way about.

    That doesn't imply war and isn't a threat.

    America's at the top of your list, I'm sure.

    He died in 1989. FYI.

    Yeah. I got drunk and pissed on the neighbor's cat to celebrate.

    The country was in revolution, ousting the American-installed dictator. I'm not surprised our embassy was no longer welcome. The inside didn't heed the warning to leave, and after 100 days, Iran reclaimed its soil.

    And I'm not suprised you see it as American aggression rather than an act of war by savages.

    They were reacting to an act of war that the United States initiated in 1953.

    The Rambone Doctrine - America made me do it.

    You appease the Military-Industrial Complex with your find-a-war-to-wage-at-any-cost-including-genocide mentality.

    Breathe deep. Let go of some of that fear.

    It must really suck to have nothing in your life worth fighting for.
     

    rambone

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    Regime:

    1. a mode or system of rule or government.
    2. a ruling or prevailing system.
    3. a government in power.
    4. the period during which a particular government or ruling system is in power.

    I would say 2 & 3 describe the state of Israel.

    So he didn't like their government? BLASPHEMY!

    KILL EM ALL!!


    And I'm not suprised you see it as American aggression rather than an act of war by savages.

    The Rambone Doctrine - America made me do it.

    Operation Ajax. Acknowledge it.

    It must really suck to have nothing in your life worth fighting for.
    Yeah that's me alright. Floating through life with no passion and no fight in my veins. You got me pegged.
     

    rambone

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    Sorry but Admadinejad said, "As the imam said, Israel must be wiped off the map." That's clear as day to everyone who's honest with themselves.

    http://www.nytimes.com/2005/10/26/world/africa/26iht-iran.html

    That exact article is referenced in the piece I posted.

    The NYT helped to originally spread this false interpretation in 2005.

    Nazila Fathi's sources got it wrong.

    I'll quote the relevant part again.

    The firestorm started when Nazila Fathi, then the Tehran correspondent of The New York Times, reported a story almost six years ago that was headlined: “Wipe Israel ‘off the map’ Iranian says.” The article attributed newly elected Iranian President Mahmoud Ahmadinejad’s remarks to a report by the ISNA press agency.

    The article sparked outrage around the globe, with then-President George W. Bush and other world leaders condemning Ahmadinejad’s statement. The original New York Times article noted that Ahmadinejad said he was quoting Ayatollah Ruhollah Khomeini, the leader of the Islamic revolution, but that aspect was largely overlooked.

    Then, specialists such as Juan Cole of the University of Michigan and Arash Norouzi of the Mossadegh Project pointed out that the original statement in Persian did not say that Israel should be wiped from the map, but instead that it would collapse.

    Cole said this week that in the 1980s Khomeini gave a speech in which he said in Persian “Een rezhim-i eshghalgar-i Quds bayad az sahneh-i ruzgar mahv shaved.” This means, “This occupation regime over Jerusalem must vanish from the arena of time.” But then anonymous wire service translators rendered Khomeini as saying that Israel “must be wiped off the face of the map,” which Cole and Nourouzi say is inaccurate.

    Ahmadinejad slightly misquoted Khomeini, substituting “safheh-i ruzgar,” or “page of time" for "sahneh-i ruzgar" or “arena of time.” But in any case, the old translation was dug up and used again by the Iranian news agency, Cole says. In fact, that’s how it was presented for years on Ahmadinejad’s English-language Web site, as the Times noted in a somewhat defensive article on the translation debate.
     

    SemperFiUSMC

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    Yeah that's me alright. Floating through life with no passion and no fight in my veins. You got me pegged.

    What did you do when you had the chance to man up and speak truth to power? Oh yeah, you folded up your little sign and ran away to the relative safety of the Interwebz where you reign supreme.

    Like I said, it must suck to have nothing in your life worth fighting for.
     

    steveh_131

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    What did you do when you had the chance to man up and speak truth to power? Oh yeah, you folded up your little sign and ran away to the relative safety of the Interwebz where you reign supreme.

    Like I said, it must suck to have nothing in your life worth fighting for.

    It must suck to want to kill so many people, but to be too _________ to go do it. (You can fill in the blank)

    If you want Iran destroyed, hop a plane over there and get started.

    We'll still be here living our own lives and trying to let others do the same.
     

    bingley

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    Hey, Rambone, what's your problem? We've decided what we want to believe, and these facts just confuse things. Caring about accuracy in translating foreign leaders' speeches just doesn't pay off. In this case, the faithful translation totally contradicts what I'd rather have him say. It's just inconvenient. And who the heck speaks Iranian anyway? Why can't I believe whatever crazy stuff I want to believe? Why do I have to care about facts?

    I guess the next thing you'll tell us is Santa doesn't exist. You're going to ruin Christmas for us.
     

    thebishopp

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    Hey, Rambone, what's your problem? We've decided what we want to believe, and these facts just confuse things. Caring about accuracy in translating foreign leaders' speeches just doesn't pay off. In this case, the faithful translation totally contradicts what I'd rather have him say. It's just inconvenient. And who the heck speaks Iranian anyway? Why can't I believe whatever crazy stuff I want to believe? Why do I have to care about facts?

    I guess the next thing you'll tell us is Santa doesn't exist. You're going to ruin Christmas for us.

    :yesway::):
     

    Expat

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    The translation I read was really a bit worse than wipe them off the map. I was told by a native speaker of the language that it really meant to remove them from human memory.
     

    SemperFiUSMC

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    Hey, Rambone, what's your problem? We've decided what we want to believe, and these facts just confuse things. Caring about accuracy in translating foreign leaders' speeches just doesn't pay off. In this case, the faithful translation totally contradicts what I'd rather have him say. It's just inconvenient. And who the heck speaks Iranian anyway? Why can't I believe whatever crazy stuff I want to believe? Why do I have to care about facts?

    I guess the next thing you'll tell us is Santa doesn't exist. You're going to ruin Christmas for us.

    Farsi. Iranians speak Farsi. Knowing what language they speak is the first step in translating it.

    The translation I read was really a bit worse than wipe them off the map. I was told by a native speaker of the language that it really meant to remove them from human memory.

    You must worship at the alter of the Military Industrial Complex.
     

    Mackey

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    This "controversy" regarding what Mahmoud Ahmadinejad supposedly said or didn't say is just re-writing the record in the anticipation to the upcoming (almost certain) first strike by Israel.
    It's pretty clear at this point that Iran wants either:
    1) to develop a deployable nuclear weapon to use against Israel .... or more likely ...
    2) to receive a first strike by Israel.
    I believe they see it as a win-win.
    Of course, I'm sure they have situated orphanages or widows homes around all weapon or research facilities. I'm equally certain, that they have set up "dummy" facilities (the ones they''ll showcase to the nations after a strike that were only making medicine for the poor).
    I believe, that Iran is actually hoping for the strike in an attempt to get the world to turn agaist Israel. Which would actually be the only way to permanently remove Israel from the land.

    One little problem: This may be leading up to what was prophesied in the Bible concerning what would happen in the later days ....
    Got bad news ... it ends very very badly for anyone who comes up against Israel.
    Israel is here to stay.
     
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