Did "Iran" really threaten to "wipe Israel off the map"?

[thebishopp]

But that's different.

I see what you did there

 

[steveh_131]

I don't agree with you, so therefore I must not look at it in an objective manner. You sum up the libertarian attitude quite nicely. There are no disagreements, only failures of principle, according to your "objective" world view.

Another option is right in front of your face, but perhaps the blinding light of your brilliant objectivity kept you from seeing it.

What if, and I know this is crazy talk, but what if I think there's a fundamental difference in the two kinds of interference? What if I can explain it according to a consistent philosophy? What if, gasp, we just disagree? Nope, that can't be it. Just like I can't make a principled, logical, choice to vote for a Romney or a Santorum as the best possible choice for freedom. Nope, it's not a disagreement, it's that I don't really love freedom, and that I'm in love with Romney's hair and that I get my marching orders from Rush Limbaugh, and that I just want to be on a winning team.

But thanks, I'll work on my lack of objectivity. I'll use you as my shining example.

What if, gasp, we just disagree and I don't actually 'hate America' or 'blame America first'?

For the record, I know you never said that. My post was mostly directed towards those who do.

 

[steveh_131]

Saying that America's foreign policy is dumb is the truth. Saying that it led to madmen flying planes into our buildings is a Blame America First strategy.

Saying that America's economic and welfare policy is dumb is the truth. Saying that it led to a recession is a Blame America First strategy.

Saying that America's gun control laws are dumb is the truth. Saying that it led to an increase in crime is a Blame America First strategy.

 

[rambone]

Nope. What makes you Hate America First is when you blame America's actions for whatever bad happens to us.

Classic.

Saying that America's foreign policy is dumb is the truth. Saying that it led to madmen flying planes into our buildings is a Blame America First strategy.

No, the principles aren't the same. They would be the same if you said that McVeigh was justified for blowing up the Federal building in OKC because he was upset about Waco and Ruby Ridge. He was a mad man in search of an excuse. Same with the Islam-o-tweakers.

Good example.

If the Federal Government didn't barbeque dozens of people at Waco, McVeigh might not have acted.

That doesn't make McVeigh a hero. It says that irresponsible Government policies put Americans in danger.

That's analogous to U.S. foreign policy.

Toppling governments and changing regimes doesn't make us safer. It inspires retaliation.

That doesn't mean the people doing the retaliating are heroes.

It means that the blowback might have been avoided by using a different foreign policy.

 

[SemperFiUSMC]

No, not dumb. Obviously people have a good memory for being f***ed with.

The Iranians didn't appreciate their democratically elected Prime Minister being removed by the CIA. It didn't "expire" from their memories.

How long would you be bitter about your president being removed by a foreign government? And yet you blame Islam for the blowback once again.

First Mosaddegh wasn't democratically elected. He was installed by the Iranian Parliment. He was a dictator, having been granted emergency powers to pass whatever laws he wanted to do whatever he wanted.
As part of those powers he nationalized the oil fields and stole from the British. The Shah asked for our help and with British proding we did.

Seriously, if you are going to get you information from Wikipedia, read past the first two paragraphs.

 

[MilitaryArms]

I know this is going to be shocking to some and anger others, but I'm of the opinion that it's not our problem.

It was great when we were flush with cash and played the worlds police. As thankless as the job was, it was lots of fun and good for the defense contractors to run around the globe playing dirty politics and killing people that didn't play ball... I mean, being the world police.

Today we're broke. We're damn near insolvent. I really don't want to borrow money from China to finance yet another war that has absolutely no upside and certainly doesn't do squat for our national security. A nuclear Iran poses no threat to the U.S. as they lack a viable delivery method for their warheads.

It's Israels problem. Israel is perfectly capable of dealing with it. Hell, they threaten to deal with it every week it seems yet we beg them not to. Why? Let them deal with it, it's not our problem.

I'm not even a fan of being "allies" with Israel anyway. Being an ally implies it's a mutually beneficial partnership. In the case of Israel we give and they take, period. They don't help us with our military missions anywhere in the world and we fund their military expeditions. We give them billions, they give us nothing in return.

I'm not ready to send our youth to go die for their problems when we have our own problems right here at home. Is Israel helping to man our border with Mexico? Are they helping us defend South Korea from the North? Did they help out in Kosovo? Are they doing anything other than fighting with their neighbors on our dime?

 

[thebishopp]

It's Israels problem. Israel is perfectly capable of dealing with it. Hell, they threaten to deal with it every week it seems yet we beg them not to. Why? Let them deal with it, it's not our problem.

I'm not even a fan of being "allies" with Israel anyway. Being an ally implies it's a mutually beneficial partnership. In the case of Israel we give and they take, period. They don't help us with our military missions anywhere in the world and we fund their military expeditions. We give them billions, they give us nothing in return.

I'm not ready to send our youth to go die for their problems when we have our own problems right here at home. Is Israel helping to man our border with Mexico? Are they helping us defend South Korea from the North? Did they help out in Kosovo? Are they doing anything other than fighting with their neighbors on our dime?

According to the Bible you are duty bound as a Christian to defend the Jews ("God's Chosen") and Israel. If you don't you will burn in hell.

 

[steveh_131]

According to the Bible you are duty bound as a Christian to defend the Jews ("God's Chosen") and Israel. If you don't you will burn in hell.

This is absurd on several different levels.

 

[thebishopp]

This is absurd on several different levels.

Hey, that's what it says (or so some will tell you). Didn't say I agreed with it.

 

[MilitaryArms]

According to the Bible you are duty bound as a Christian to defend the Jews ("God's Chosen") and Israel. If you don't you will burn in hell.

Oh, I missed that passage in Bible school. Disregard my previous post. Let's go kill some more brown people.

 

[thebishopp]

Oh, I missed that passage in Bible school. Disregard my previous post. Let's go kill some more brown people.

That's ok. As long as you are repentant and willing to start puttin' em to the sword all will be forgiven Remember no one expects the spanish inquisition!

 

[rambone]

What if, gasp, we just disagree and I don't actually 'hate America' or 'blame America first'?

Hey, speak for yourself, America-lover. I've got a reputation to uphold here.

 

[thebishopp]

What if, gasp, we just disagree and I don't actually 'hate America' or 'blame America first'?
.

Don't feel bad. It's a common tactic.


"Naturally the common people don't want war: Neither in Russia, nor in England, nor for that matter in Germany. That is understood. But, after all, it is the leaders of the country who determine the policy and it is always a simple matter to drag the people along, whether it is a democracy, or a fascist dictatorship, or a parliament, or a communist dictatorship. Voice or no voice, the people can always be brought to the bidding of the leaders. That is easy. All you have to do is tell them they are being attacked, and denounce the peacemakers for lack of patriotism and exposing the country to danger. It works the same in any country."

--Goering at the Nuremberg Trials (emphasis added by me)

 

[wagyu52]

According to the Bible you are duty bound as a Christian to defend the Jews ("God's Chosen") and Israel. If you don't you will burn in hell.

 

[steveh_131]

Hey, that's what it says (or so some will tell you). Didn't say I agreed with it.

Some may tell you that, I agree. That's definitely not what it says though.

 

[thebishopp]

Some may tell you that, I agree. That's definitely not what it says though.

I agree. As far as I recall it does not say it specifically, but "they" will/are using scriptures that talk about curses and blessings regarding israel and those who stand with or against the chosen people.

I have even run into people who believe whole heartedly that Christians are supposed to be subservient to the Jewish nation as the bible states that the Jews are the "tree" and Christians a "branch" of that tree.

Perhaps someone can confirm but I hear that Rabbi Ovadia Yosef said that non-Jews exist to serve Jews, “Goyim were born only to serve us. Without that, they have no place in the world; only to serve the People of Israel…Why are gentiles needed? They will work, they will plow, they will reap. We will sit like an effendi [Arabic, meaning lord or master] and eat, That is why gentiles were created,””

"With gentiles, it will be like any person - they need to die, but [God] will give them longevity. Why? Imagine that one’s donkey would die, they’d lose their money. This is his servant... That’s why he gets a long life, to work well for this Jew.”

Yosef: Gentiles exist only ... JPost - Jewish World - Jewish News

 

[bingley]

Farsi. Iranians speak Farsi. Knowing what language they speak is the first step in translating it.

I've had it with you East Coast Ivy League truffle-sniffing arugula-eating elitists with your fancy languages. Like I said, stop confusing me with the facts! It must feel good to translate all that furrin Arab Koran stuff, hunh, Al Jazeera? Farsi, hunh? Well, excuse me, I didn't got to the Sorbonne. The country is called Iran, not Ifart. Who the heck cares what nonsense they talk? If English was good enough for Jesus and Santa, it's good enough for me!

 

[88GT]

Don't feel bad. It's a common tactic.

Yep, the "a vote for anybody other than Paul is support for tyranny" crowd belts it out at the rate of at least one a day.

 

[thebishopp]

Yep, the "a vote for anybody other than Paul is support for tyranny" crowd belts it out at the rate of at least one a day.

It is a good tactic

 

[hornadylnl]

Apples and oranges. I'm not suggesting, nor am I in a position, to invade them over it. So your attempted analogy is, well, dumb.

So your votes for those who are suggesting or are in a position to invade them had zero influence?