Would You Fight For Your Country - Ref Obama Thread

[Jack Ryan]

I love the enthusiasm I see from people willing to fight for our country. I also like the idea Americans can count of Americans to stand by them regardless of who is "driving the bus".

But, where's the fun in all that agreement. I'd like to stir things up a little by combining a few threads I've seen else where and the Fighting if Obam is pres thread and coming up with a topic I'm particularly interested in.

Now Obama is president. He's the leader of the country now and many have espoused their willingness to back his play.

When Katrina part II happens and Obama calls out the National Guard, when he gives them orders to confiscate weapons regardless of who has them or what they are doing with them, remember the republican holy one GeeDub has already set precident on this, is every one still going to be jumping to serve?

We already know which side LEO will come down on the issue. They will do the bidding of the one handing them a pay check.

Keep in mind it's not an "if", we can go straight to recent documents to point out plain fact of what actions were already taken and where the government officals are going to go with it.

 

[BloodEclipse]

I will always serve and protect my country, not necessarily my government. I hope that is plain enough.

 

[Jack Ryan]

I will always serve and protect my country, not necessarily my government. I hope that is plain enough.

Not getting off that easy.

The national guard was sent to N.O. to collect the guns. They took them from every one. No warrant, no backround check. They were acting under orders.

Now, your country's leader orders you to go as a squad in uniform and get those guns. What are you going to do?


You are a local LEO, Sherrif's department, town or state police. Obama orders you to go get those guns. In uniform, official police business, no other warrant or law broken, they just decided and legally voted the law that says you are not allowed to have say a pump shotgun. Now it's your job to go get those shotguns they didn't turn in last week. What are you going to do?

 

[BloodEclipse]

Refuse, resign, quit. Try and get a headstart so I can warn citizens to hide their weapons or be prepared to use them. I would not obey an order that I felt took away constitutional rights.

 

[Jack Ryan]

Look for the post by this LEO when the topic came up in another thread on this Georgia board.

I'm just curious................. - Georgia Outdoor News Forum

jason4445
If I had a paper issued by the court to go to someone's house and get their guns I would do it if I liked it or not. Many thing similar to that I had to do that I felt poorly about doing , but my job made me a servant of the court and I had to do as the court ordered.

That being said I don't think their is going to be any order to go out and collect guns. May be things like AR-15's and that kind of thing. What will happen is you can have all the guns in your house you want, you just won't be able to remove them from your house and it will be illegal to shoot a gun under any circumstances. In other words you can't carry a gun in your vehicle and you can have all the guns you want, it will just be illegal to shoot one. Outside that they will tax ammo to the point of $20 a bullet, then if you shoot a bullet you go to jail. That is my prediction on the precious 2nd amendment freedoms.

jason4445
The oath I took to be a policeman was to uphold the laws, it said nothing about the Constitution. Laws are fairly well conclusive - if you break one or not is mostly the question to be decided by a jury. However, the Constitution is like the Bible. It is extremely subjective and its application can change right quickly depending on the views of a few individuals - the Justices. There is nothing in the constitution that expressly states you can carry or own guns, but the courts have interpreted it that way just as they have laid restrictions on Freedom of Speech, and interpreted that with the freedom of religion a woman can have an abortion. And this gun thing can change after Obama wins and new liberal justices are appointed.

Will cops be storm-trooping through everyone's home to get guns - no. Like I said laws will be passed to prohibit you from shooting one and if you do the gun will be confiscated. You shoot it and the cops will come to arrest you and "get your gun." And like any other arrest you will be told you are under arrest and to come with the cops - you refuse then you will be taken - fight and the nightsticks and saps will come out and applied until you decided to stop fighting and then you go to jail for a longer time. Go get your gun and start pointing and/or shooting then you will end up dead or in jail for a much longer time.

So no matter what - on an individual bases upon violation of the possible new law you will go to jail and your gun taken from you. How long you wish to go to jail will be determined by you.

This should give you a pretty fair heads up and a head start on where a thread like this will go and the topic that will be brought up.

I'm wondering if it will be different here with Hoosiers and with it being the specific topic of the thread it may be explored a little further.

 

[Walter Zoomie]

I would refuse to obey an unlawful order.
Not gonna bet on it, but I believe many cops/soldiers would do the same.

 

[Jackson]

I think you're all kidding yourselves if you think any police officer who isn't a gun person, and who doesn't have very strong feelings about the second amendment, would care one way or the other that a law was seemingly unconstitutional. If such a law were passed, it would be legal to confiscate your guns until the law was challenged in court and found to be unconstitutional and that's exactly what any police officer who wanted to keep their job would do, if ordered to do so.

Most LEOs are like most everyone else. They aren't gun enthusiasts and don't care one way or the other whether you get to keep your guns. But they will do their job and enforce the law as it's written by congress.

 

[4sarge]

I think you're all kidding yourselves if you think any police officer who isn't a gun person, and who doesn't have very strong feelings about the second amendment, would care one way or the other that a law was seemingly unconstitutional. If such a law were passed, it would be legal to confiscate your guns until the law was challenged in court and found to be unconstitutional and that's exactly what any police officer who wanted to keep their job would do, if ordered to do so.

Most LEOs are like most everyone else. They aren't gun enthusiasts and don't care one way or the other whether you get to keep your guns. But they will do their job and enforce the law as it's written by congress.

IMO a correct thought. I'm an American, a retired LEO and consider myself an Independent Voter. Political Party affiliation is not the deciding factor when I vote for a candidate. LEO's will follow the law as written until it is changed. It's our mission to make sure that those laws are fair, constitutional and equally enforced for the benefit of all.

 

[jsgolfman]

If I could quote Teddy Roosevelt a bit, "Patriotism means to stand by the country. It does not mean to stand by the president or any other public official, save exactly to the degree in which he himself stands by the country. It is patriotic to support him insofar as he efficiently serves the country. It is unpatriotic not to oppose him to the exact extent that by inefficiently or otherwise he fails in his duty to stand by the country."

So, that is my stance. As a law of that type would be unconstitutional, it would be my duty to not enforce it.

 

[Hoosier8]

Just a side note on SCOTUS. All 3 judges that may retire are all Liberal judges. Something positive to think about.

I agree that most LEO's will do what is expected of them, after all, most have families to take care of and will not endanger their employment. For one, anyone that decides to take a stand will, for the most part, be singular and the news will play out that he/she was some kind of a nut and most everyone will convince themselves of that.

The change will all be couched in wording that will make it sound reasonable. This is critical to infringing on your rights. There will be an appeal to safety for the LEO's and for the people. Many people may have a rifle in their closet but most are not as enthusiastic as on this board. The push is on and the only way you are going to fight it is by trying to convince your representatives that it is a very very bad idea. If you sit around and plan how you are going to physically resist, you will be wasting valuable time. Get involved instead. Start writing now! Visit your representatives! Join groups like the NRA. Our rights will only be protected by working together.

 

[Mr.Hoppes]

It's our mission to make sure that those laws are fair, constitutional and equally enforced for the benefit of all.

Ok to what end do we go to, to get that change? The government is corrupt and unbalanced to the point where once a law is on the books making any changes at all is nearly impossible. I don't believe the government as it exists today is salvageable. Greed and power hungry individuals has over taken the ability of the American public ( we the people) to effectually correct the system. I am NOT an anarchist, I am an American, and I am tired of government intrusions and limitations.

 

[right winger]

Would You Fight For Your Country - Ref Obama

Ok to what end do we go to, to get that change? The government is corrupt and unbalanced to the point where once a law is on the books making any changes at all is nearly impossible. I don't believe the government as it exists today is salvageable. Greed and power hungry individuals has over taken the ability of the American public ( we the people) to effectually correct the system. I am NOT an anarchist, I am an American, and I am tired of government intrusions and limitations.

 

[SavageEagle]

So then if they decide to confiscate your guns, and you refuse, will you shoot those who try to take them by force? Then you have a posse on your ass and you're running for your life.

The second amendment was put in place specificlly so we would be able to fight our own army, but we've been stripped of that because our own government doesn't trust us. So if even half the army decides to follow orders, how do you run from xray seeing satellites, Predators, and heat-seaking missles? You can run, but you can't hide. So of us seem to think that hiding in the hills will be enough, but it's not like that anymore. They can track us anywhere at anytime.

The main question is not if YOU will fight back. The main question is how much back up will you have should the time come. I know I can count on a couple people here, but not everyone. So what are you really going to do when the time comes? Hide? Fight? Run? Die? Personally, I would rather die a free man and show my kids that some things are worth dying for than to submit and show my kids that you MUST to as you are told without question. That my friends is something you can COUNT ON.

 

[Mr.Hoppes]

Personally, I would rather die a free man and show my kids that some things are worth dying for than to submit and show my kids that you MUST to as you are told without question.

Exactly.

These days I derive a lot of motivation from what my grand children will know of me. If I die fighting tyranny and oppression I have left an honorable legacy. My children know from watching me every day, but what will they or others tell my grand children and great grand children about me. To this date nothing particularly note worthy has come from my lineage.

I pray that the history of the Hoppes blood line will show that I have changed it from existence by whatever means, to surviving through righteous living, before I returned to dust.

Matthew 10:22 (King James Version)
22. And ye shall be hated of all men for my name's sake: but he that endureth to the end shall be saved.

I pray when my grand children think of me they can say that I endured until the end.

 

[ATM]

The early choice I see facing is this:

When they come to disarm you, do you...

1. Video tape your verbal non-compliance and let them take them.

2. Refuse and shout "don't tase me, bro!" Then get tasered before they take them.

3. Refuse and draw. Get shot and die before they take them.

4. Draw and shoot. Take out as many as you can before you die and they take them.

5. Give them up and write stronger letters IN ALL CAPS!

Damn! Now I'm depressed. I thought I would come up with some better options while writing this. Somebody help me with some better choices. This is much harder than vowing to fight against foreign enemies. Thought provoking thread, indeed. OP REP'd.

ETA: re-read OP and realized I was pondering about my current status as owner, not status of one sent by gov to confiscate. I would refuse, resign and/or face court martial. But then, if free, I'm right back to the above status with the same choices to make.

 

[DodgebyDave]

well now then...... DO I

Assist a police officer if I see a perp getting the upper hand or do I assist a possible citizen avoiding tyranny?

Don't say they never get the upper hand. If you do I'll call you a liar.

My oath (military) was to uphold the constitution of the united states against all enemies foreign or domestic.

I'll do just that. Plain language deserves a plain response. Regardless of who sits in office.

My sister is an attorney, and I have challenged her to a game. I, even as a layman am going to lay out a brief challenging that we have a right to revolt under the same reasons outlined in the Declaration of Independence.

oooopppppppssssss.........................

The Right to Revolt. WHEN IN THE COURSE OF HUMAN EVENTS..............

So the line has been drawn. I would have liked to have had the LEO on our side. We'll have some cross ranks. Not all LEO's are indoctrinated automatons.

I'm old, I have had my fun and made my mark on the world. Dying is just another step in this life that I must take.

And I will not go gently into that good night.

 

[SavageEagle]

The early choice I see facing is this:

When they come to disarm you, do you...

1. Video tape your verbal non-compliance and let them take them.

2. Refuse and shout "don't tase me, bro!" Then get tasered before they take them.

3. Refuse and draw. Get shot and die before they take them.

4. Draw and shoot. Take out as many as you can before you die and they take them.

5. Give them up and write stronger letters IN ALL CAPS!

You forgot one.

6) See they are about to disarm/are disarming citizens door to door and flee the area with your family (or leave them) until you can organize enough people to make a stand.

There is a great war coming if we don't put a stop to it. There will be another civil war in this Country but it won't be about racism or slaves or taxes. Ok, maybe taxes. But it will be about tyranny of Government, abuses of power, and pure and simple GREED.

We can stop it. We can end it all RIGHT NOW! But we have to be active. We have to get the media on our side. Be our own media. Right now we are just a bunch of people throwing our opinions and thoughts around. How long before those thoughts and opinions become actions? a few people writing letters will NOT change ANYTHING. The NRA spends millions every year fighting the good fight. It all seems so impossible but its not. The NRA, GOA, all these groups fight for us in Washington. We live in Indiana. We must start in our own towns, attending town meetings, running for office, calling our reps, protesting if need be, and setting the example in everyday life.

I have been OCing on MANY occasions and have yet to have so much as a frightened lady near me let alone PPD stop me and ask for my permit. If everyone OCed maybe people wouldn't be so spooked. So it's not tactical? Waaa aaa. Get over it. We have to DO SOMETHING and get the people's support otherwise we are just dead goldfish circling the toilet bowl waiting on the final flush.

 

[VN Vet]

There was a rumor about 12 years or so ago that said our military was training on vidio games that had them shooting American Looking people. This was rumored as being done to get the troops accustomed to shooting peope that looked American. While I do not know if this rumor is or was true, it is a scary thought that our government would order open fire on American Citizens.

Our government ordered that we had to kill our fellow Americans in the 1860's and if History does repeat itself, we will have to do it again. If we did not learn something from the 1860's we will be forced to repeat those times. Today we have the means to kill more effectively and more completely.

 

[SavageEagle]

So... you still have those satellite trackers and anti-sat missles I ordered? I think I'm going to need those back now....

 

[jedi]

So then if they decide to confiscate your guns, and you refuse, will you shoot those who try to take them by force? Then you have a posse on your ass and you're running for your life.

The second amendment was put in place specificlly so we would be able to fight our own army, but we've been stripped of that because our own government doesn't trust us. So if even half the army decides to follow orders, how do you run from xray seeing satellites, Predators, and heat-seaking missles? You can run, but you can't hide. So of us seem to think that hiding in the hills will be enough, but it's not like that anymore. They can track us anywhere at anytime.

The main question is not if YOU will fight back. The main question is how much back up will you have should the time come. I know I can count on a couple people here, but not everyone. So what are you really going to do when the time comes? Hide? Fight? Run? Die? Personally, I would rather die a free man and show my kids that some things are worth dying for than to submit and show my kids that you MUST to as you are told without question. That my friends is something you can COUNT ON.

Our founding fathers had it just as bad. The mightiest ARMY and NAVY of the time was called upon to stop the revolution in the American colony. Those were armed, professional soldiers that the British had. Did that stop our founding fathers?

If they (ff) would have lost history would have said they were rebels/terrorist and not heros. But each and every one of them was willing to DIE for what they believed in. Now some 200 years later you must make that choice?