Capital Punishment

[ATF Consumer]

Not going to derail the conversation any farther so lets just say say i disagree with you.

Of course you do...you have job security.

 

[dross]

Not going to derail the conversation any farther so lets just say say i disagree with you.



Dross:
In almost every instance where these innocent men who were about to executed but instead were released have several people working tirelessly trying to get them released because they were on death row. If they had not been sentenced to death but instead were serving life without parole they would still be in jail.

There are many things wrong with our justice system but a judge and jury convicted these people of the crime that was being prosecuted by lawyers following guidelines/laws that were created by politicians that were elected by the public at large. Our justice system is a result of what the public wants, how would you go about changing that?

It seems like you're saying that one defense for the death penalty is that there's a better chance of getting an innocent man released if he's sentenced to death?

The death penalty is clearly constitutional, so you would have to change it through the political process. First that requires convincing other people to be against it, which is what I'm doing right this instant.

 

[rjstew317]

Where does " Thou Shalt Not Kill " fall in this With that being said I'm for it as long as there is no reasonable doubt

Right next to "an eye for an eye" I think.
correct me if I'm wrong, but isn't it twelve citizens that ultimately make the decision of life or death in a capital case, and not the government?

 

[steveh_131]

Right next to "an eye for an eye" I think.
correct me if I'm wrong, but isn't it twelve citizens that ultimately make the decision of life or death in a capital case, and not the government?

A decision based on rules and procedures determined by the government, using evidence obtained by the government.

 

[rjstew317]

A decision based on rules and procedures determined by the government, using evidence obtained by the government.

but it's not one sided, there is a defense team that also produces evidence and present arguments.
the burden of proof in on the prosecution, and ultimately it is decided by a jury of your peers.

 

[steveh_131]

but it's not one sided, there is a defense team that also produces evidence and present arguments.
the burden of proof in on the prosecution, and ultimately it is decided by a jury of your peers.

There are plenty of opportunities for corruption, mistakes and lies on the part of the prosecution. And there are plenty of cases to prove it.

 

[ATOMonkey]

Juries, unfortunately, have been dumbed down to such a level that most cases are successfully prosecuted with a cleverly concocted story and circumstantial evidence.

 

[dross]

Right next to "an eye for an eye" I think.
correct me if I'm wrong, but isn't it twelve citizens that ultimately make the decision of life or death in a capital case, and not the government?

It's still the government, the jury is part of the government at that moment.

It's even more so now when judges have eroded the citizen's right to have the jury judge the law as well as the facts, by instructing juries that they may not judge the law.

 

[Fletch]

Where does " Thou Shalt Not Kill " fall in this

Right next to "an eye for an eye" I think.

Be aware that there are 2 problems with heading down this path:

1) It's against the rules.

2) It would force us to also contemplate associated scripture such as "thou shalt not suffer a witch to live" and whether or not we'd be better off with the theocracy that those passages were intended to create.

 

[badwolf.usmc]

It seems like you're saying that one defense for the death penalty is that there's a better chance of getting an innocent man released if he's sentenced to death?

No, what i'm saying is that it wasn't his punishment that was unfair, but the fact that an innocent man was punished at all. While as a people we like to say innocent until proven guilty, most people really believe the opposite. Most people think that just because someone has made it the point of being before a judge that they must have done something wrong and will convent in the belief that they don't want to take the chance of a guilty person being on the street.

The punishment isn't the problem, it is people's attitude toward those who have been charged with a crime. Even if you get rid of the death penalty, innocent people will still go to jail for the rest of their lives, how different is that than the death penalty? Yea, they may still be alive but their life has been destroyed.

I guess one way to fix that problem is to change the way probation is given. Instead of the criminal having to prove why they should be let out but have the state instead prove every few year why they need to still be in jail. It would be another layer of bureaucracy but it would give those who are innocent or not a threat anymore a chance at getting their lives back.


ATF Consumer:

lol, job security huh? I work three jobs, and are trying to get a fourth, all the while being married and waiting for the first little to be born. I wish I was still active duty, it was an easier life.

 

[grimor]

Where does " Thou Shalt Not Kill " fall in this With that being said I'm for it as long as there is no reasonable doubt

I'f you're talking about the bible and the 10 commandments, it actually translates into "Thou shalt no murder" The bible is all for killing.

 

[rjstew317]

It's still the government, the jury is part of the government at that moment.

It's even more so now when judges have eroded the citizen's right to have the jury judge the law as well as the facts, by instructing juries that they may not judge the law.

I don't recall being told (by the judge or anyone else) that we could not judge the law on the last jury I was on, and I felt it was a pretty fair process. of course this is based on my personal experience

 

[public servant]

Options 1 and 3.

 

[j706]

The death penalty is a OK in my book. It should be used more often too. There should be a two year cap on the appeals. Appeal all you want but you better have it wrapped up within two. Get rid of lethal injection. Too easy IMO. Lethal injection is what you give to your loving family pet that has a terminal illness so as to keep it from suffering any more. Not what you give the scum of the earth. Rope is much cheaper. Capital punishment has lost it's effectiveness due to all the lawyer crap. Change to all the above it it will become a deterrent again.

As bad as I despise Bill Clinton he did do it right with Timothy Mcveigh sorry a--. That is how capital punishment should go.

 

[dross]

The death penalty is a OK in my book. It should be used more often too. There should be a two year cap on the appeals. Appeal all you want but you better have it wrapped up within two. Get rid of lethal injection. Too easy IMO. Lethal injection is what you give to your loving family pet that has a terminal illness so as to keep it from suffering any more. Not what you give the scum of the earth. Rope is much cheaper. Capital punishment has lost it's effectiveness due to all the lawyer crap. Change to all the above it it will become a deterrent again.

As bad as I despise Bill Clinton he did do it right with Timothy Mcveigh sorry a--. That is how capital punishment should go.

What's your view on the innocent who will surely die under accelerated appeals?

 

[Coach]

What's your view on the innocent who will surely die under accelerated appeals?

Innocent of what?

How many pure as a driven snow people are going to find themselves in this situation and convicted by a jury of their peers and the ruling upheld in an appeal?


The cops were in hurry so they swung by the local barber shop and snatched somebody out of the chair just to close the case and the jury just went along because they are stupid?

 

[gunman41mag]

The death penalty is a OK in my book. It should be used more often too. There should be a two year cap on the appeals. Appeal all you want but you better have it wrapped up within two. Get rid of lethal injection. Too easy IMO. Lethal injection is what you give to your loving family pet that has a terminal illness so as to keep it from suffering any more. Not what you give the scum of the earth. Rope is much cheaper. Capital punishment has lost it's effectiveness due to all the lawyer crap. Change to all the above it it will become a deterrent again.

As bad as I despise Bill Clinton he did do it right with Timothy Mcveigh sorry a--. That is how capital punishment should go.

Lethal injection only if it's AIDS or BATTERY ACID

 

[Fletch]

Innocent of what?

How many pure as a driven snow people are going to find themselves in this situation and convicted by a jury of their peers and the ruling upheld in an appeal?

It must be nice to believe in your government so totally.

It takes almost zero effort to Google up people turned loose from death row after decades because it was finally determined that the prosecution pulled a railroad job, or some "expert witness" lied through their teeth about the strength of the evidence... And not just a handful of such people, either.

Dr. Stephen Hayne is only the tip of the iceberg. I'd tell you to look him up, but I understand that True Believers can't be reasoned with.

 

[SemperFiUSMC]

Innocent of what?

How many pure as a driven snow people are going to find themselves in this situation and convicted by a jury of their peers and the ruling upheld in an appeal?


The cops were in hurry so they swung by the local barber shop and snatched somebody out of the chair just to close the case and the jury just went along because they are stupid?

Lot's of people are released from death row every year, ultimately exonerated by a system that once condemned them. The criminal justice system is too corrupt and those that participate too incompetent to allow them to play God. No, lock them up for life. Jeffrey Dahmer departed much sooner in general population than he would have on death row.

 

[dross]

Innocent of what?

How many pure as a driven snow people are going to find themselves in this situation and convicted by a jury of their peers and the ruling upheld in an appeal?


The cops were in hurry so they swung by the local barber shop and snatched somebody out of the chair just to close the case and the jury just went along because they are stupid?

So, to sum up your position: If they ain't guilty of this they're guilty of something?

Your example of cops snatching up just anyone at the barber shop isn't worthy of you, you know that, right?

If we're going to put a man to death, shouldn't he be guilty of exactly what we're putting him to death for? Or is justice only for the pure?

I urge you to reconsider your position. If it's the way you actually portrayed it, it's disgusting.

"Innocent of what?"

Really?