Woodfield SouthLake Shopping Mall in Hobart...

[Dragon Talon TSi AWD]

Man, a whole lot of assumptions in there about me. You didn't understand what I was saying.

And you are writing to a disabled veteran from the first Gulf War who OCs on a regular basis. I do understand, but I don't brag about it.

I doubt that you "looked death in the face and laughed".

The pilots and intel friends that I was stationed with that died there, since they weren't as lucky as I was to live, certainly didn't laugh.

Please tell me again that I don't understand.

The laughing part was sarcastic, but now you understand we both are in the same boat then. You know what its like. Well, you didn't specify, so I assumed. Explain yourself, communicate, don't leave things to question. Okay, it's not bragging when its true, be proud of what you did, be proud of who you are. We laughed in death's face cause we made it out alive, and yes, I know some people that are crazy enough to laugh about it, but I am not one of them. I/we know how precious life is, and we live it to the fullest.

You are asking for a fight that'll never end, but I'll be the bigger man and say this, "God Bless you." We both have done it, so now we are on the same page. It enrages me, as it should you, that a "sheep" (4 of them) told a "wolf" to shove it.

 

[Bushido Devil Dog]

I doubt that you "looked death in the face and laughed".

The pilots and intel friends that I was stationed with that died there, since they weren't as lucky as I was to live, certainly didn't laugh.

Please tell me again that I don't understand.

This cheesey, bad B-movie claim, along with that of being an "Expert Marksman"* is setting off my Baby Blue Marine detector...



*(Did you qualiify as a Marksman? or an Expert? ) The Marines I served with, and myself included, would never say we qualified as an "Expert Marksman"; is was the weapon, followed by the level achieved, i.e. I qualified as a Rifle Expert 4 times (and Sharpshooter once, when my over eagerness to make Expert again made me go spastic on Qual Day ).

 

[Dragon Talon TSi AWD]

I definitely think a deep breath is needed here. I am with Spook on this though for some parts.

Yeah, it sucks that we don't have the "right" to carry where ever we have the "right" to but there are limitations on everything, That's life.

Personally, from the sounds of it you over reacted a bit. Them saying they would would lock you up is them pushing there authority I agree.

But when you comment back saying things that you did or said like "Go ahead and try" and "I cussed them out and left. Then people were staring" and "I just told them if you touch me, then you'll have to worry about more than just my gun.". I personally would have said alright, called LE and asked you be removed for disturbing the peace.

And YES you are responsible for the rest of us. Gun haters are started because of one idiot going out and being a moron (not saying this is you) or reckless, not every gun owner going out at once and committing a crime.

Basically, two wrongs don't make a right. Notify the owners or operators of the mall of the actions the security took and let it be known you were with your family , include the stores you went into and let them know that it's not appreciated. If that fails, boycott them. Actions speak louder than words.

BTW, let's not make this personal and act like it's a e-penis thing and start a war, you started the thread with expectations of comments and thats all I'm giving.

Thanks Rich

NO, for the last time, I am not responsible for every other Indiana gun owner's actions. What about ol' boy from AppleBees? Did I give a crap about his actions? No, but it happenend, and am I blaming him for gun laws in IL? No, I could care less... It's his life, his problems, not mine. I didn't act like a moron, nor did I cause a scene, only when they "tried" to use force, verbal force, to get me to back down. I didn't take it, nor will I ever. And no, read the earlier posts, not every gun owner will feel that we all are in the same page as far as all gun owners go.

Did you not read, I waited for LE at the Hobart Police booth in the mall, no one was there but some old tenant guy sleeping. And if you read correctly, Hobart LEO's already saw me when I first came in, and checked me out, and let me go. They even joked about my kids, since they are twins.

You must not have read the thread, I said I am calling the owner/authorities of the mall to get to the bottom of this, I have reciepts for dates and times as proof, but I don't know if they keep a detailed duty log or not...

And yes, I know what I got into when I posted in this forum and posted this thread, other people do it all the time, everyday, and the main reason I joined this forum is cause its so close to home, and with some people that share the same gun loving passion as I do.

Let someone infringe on your gun carrying rights, while you are making no scene with your family, then 4 rent a cops tell you to leave but mind you they sell guns/ammo in that same store, and let's see if you take it "lightly" of 2 wrongs making a right.... I doubt that you will take it smoothly, cause if you did care, you would stand up and fight then and there. If you were in a gun fight, and you are a gun owner, I can only assume you would shoot back, not duck and weave and tuck your tail in between your legs.

 

[Dragon Talon TSi AWD]

This cheesey, bad B-movie claim, along with that of being an "Expert Marksman" is setting off my Baby Blue Marine detector...

Are you talking about me?

 

[Dragon Talon TSi AWD]

This cheesey, bad B-movie claim, along with that of being an "Expert Marksman"* is setting off my Baby Blue Marine detector...



*(Did you qualiify as a Marksman? or an Expert? ) The Marines I served with, and myself included, would never say we qualified as an "Expert Marksman"; is was the weapon, followed by the level achieved, i.e. I qualified as a Rifle Expert 4 times (and Sharpshooter once, when my over eagerness to make Expert again made me go spastic on Qual Day ).

I like how you changed your post after I quoted you, as you didn't explain before. Expert is the title I have 3 times, and counting. I have my badges and range reports to prove it, I don't need your approval. Marksman, is what the basic name I give the rifleman, someone trained in art of shooting, i.e. marksmanship. OMG, would it please you if I put, "Expert Rifleman" or something to YOUR liking? I don't care, its my signature, my choice of words of how to explain it. Of course I know to other Marines we wouldn't say that, but half the time, people don't even know what ASE stands for either, so go figure that one...

And that almost happened to me to, I got over eager on Thursday for qual day, but I calmed down and pulled through.

Do you know how many times I have to explain myself to civilian personel about my rank and status in the Marine Corps? People don't understand what a Sergeant does, nor what the rank order is, nor how its established. So, I put it in terms they can understand, and I get called Sarge by alot of unknowing people, but once I tell them the customs and courtesies, they stop calling me that.

 

[Rlee]

NO, for the last time, I am not responsible for every other Indiana gun owner's actions. What about ol' boy from AppleBees? Did I give a crap about his actions? No, but it happenend, and am I blaming him for gun laws in IL? No, I could care less... It's his life, his problems, not mine. I didn't act like a moron, nor did I cause a scene, only when they "tried" to use force, verbal force, to get me to back down. I didn't take it, nor will I ever. And no, read the earlier posts, not every gun owner will feel that we all are in the same page as far as all gun owners go.

Did you not read, I waited for LE at the Hobart Police booth in the mall, no one was there but some old tenant guy sleeping. And if you read correctly, Hobart LEO's already saw me when I first came in, and checked me out, and let me go. They even joked about my kids, since they are twins.

You must not have read the thread, I said I am calling the owner/authorities of the mall to get to the bottom of this, I have reciepts for dates and times as proof, but I don't know if they keep a detailed duty log or not...

And yes, I know what I got into when I posted in this forum and posted this thread, other people do it all the time, everyday, and the main reason I joined this forum is cause its so close to home, and with some people that share the same gun loving passion as I do.

Let someone infringe on your gun carrying rights, while you are making no scene with your family, then 4 rent a cops tell you to leave but mind you they sell guns/ammo in that same store, and let's see if you take it "lightly" of 2 wrongs making a right.... I doubt that you will take it smoothly, cause if you did care, you would stand up and fight then and there. If you were in a gun fight, and you are a gun owner, I can only assume you would shoot back, not duck and weave and tuck your tail in between your legs.

When other people cause problems they can quickly become yours. And for all the paragraphs that asked if I read the thread, I don't have the ability to read all 4 pages and quote them without reading the whole thread.

So you're saying that your not responsible for other peoples actions? Then why are you in the Marines? It's not your fight, you didn't personally pick a fight with another country or another party of people. So don't get in the middle of it. Your in the Marines to serve your country and to help us benefit from the services that you can provide. You accept a responsibility that is silently given to not make the Marines look like fools when you go on about your life. Tallywackers aren't people who are looked up to, responsible, sensible, moral people are.

There is a place and a time for a fight weither it be verbal or physical, In the middle of a mall is not one .

 

[spartan933]

and the lady said, " ............................ That thing is huge!"

I love it when they say that.

That mall stuff is BS. I CC there all the time. You should take your time and write a letter of Complaint to Westfield Mall. If they have that policy, it's their business. But, they need to have it posted at every entrance on every door. No one reads the mall Code of Conduct. I didn't know they have one. It's idiotic.

I also imagine that the Rent-A-Cops probably felt impotent (correct usage) in that they are charged with maintaining security and yet they are unarmed. They should not feel that way. But, they do.

But, a year or so ago, there used to be a really f***ing hot blonde chick that worked mall security in Hobart. She was smoking hot. I wonder if she still works there. She had handcuffs too. If she approached me the same way the Rent-A-Cops did you, I would definetly let her pat me down.

 

[bwframe]

It was only a joke... I wouldn't have drawn unless they pulled out their mace and baton... That's a weapon of opportunity, and so is mine... I just have the better opportunity to hurt you more precisely and accurately. With the best training, comes the best outcome...

So, if the mall cops pulled their mace or baton you would have drawn on them?

 

[tv1217]

But, a year or so ago, there used to be a really f***ing hot blonde chick that worked mall security in Hobart. She was smoking hot. I wonder if she still works there. She had handcuffs too. If she approached me the same way the Rent-A-Cops did you, I would definetly let her pat me down.

Add one tot the list of reasons to go.

 

[chasekerion4]

Why is this an argument about how HE handled it?

The point of the thread is exactly like Scutter's was - he got the boot for his lawful possession. The local LE checked him out, let him go and Paul Blart puffed the chest out.

I'm sure Dragon would agree one or two things on his end could have been done different, but nevertheless, he wasn't in the wrong (or so it certainly appears from what we've read).

The whole process is a joke, and it begins in downtown Indy. The laws need to be clearer, the word needs to get out, and people need to stop being such pussies about guns. People's sensitivity in this country is absolutely out of control. No one has a spine (even some here) as he should have talked to the mall cop like a conforming sheep, tucking tail and doing as told. Everyone's gotta please everyone else. He's got to act in every situation so that later on, when that certain someone sees YOU carrying a gun, they don't think you'll shoot them.


I personally applaud him for OC'ing in a shopping mall. Many people, even regular OC'ers don't have the balls to OC in a shopping mall. And I don't think his actions were that bad. I'd absolutely make a scene for being thrown out of somewhere that didn't take the time to post their rules in the appropriate spots. As far as I knew, I was within the law, and you bringing me a crumbled piece of paper you dug up from a corner of your office will not suffice.

Dragon was pissed off when he started this thread, I'm sure. He's probably still pissed about the ordeal and everyone's dissecting his post word for word.

He was the victim, regardless of your approval of his reaction. He got **** on and has plenty of valid reasons to be pissed, just like Scutter was.

 

[Dragon Talon TSi AWD]

So, if the mall cops pulled their mace or baton you would have drawn on them?

If they would have drawn first and said some stupid Paul Blart stuff and told me to get down on the ground or some other bs, then I would've reached for it, maybe not drawn and pointed.

For anyone that's been under the heat, you know how hot it gets, so its hard to tell what you will do until SHTF...

I would do what I am trained to do, react without question.

 

[Dragon Talon TSi AWD]

When other people cause problems they can quickly become yours. And for all the paragraphs that asked if I read the thread, I don't have the ability to read all 4 pages and quote them without reading the whole thread.

So you're saying that your not responsible for other peoples actions? Then why are you in the Marines? It's not your fight, you didn't personally pick a fight with another country or another party of people. So don't get in the middle of it. Your in the Marines to serve your country and to help us benefit from the services that you can provide. You accept a responsibility that is silently given to not make the Marines look like fools when you go on about your life. Tallywackers aren't people who are looked up to, responsible, sensible, moral people are.

There is a place and a time for a fight weither it be verbal or physical, In the middle of a mall is not one .

It is my fight. When Hadjii fu&*s blow up our towers, and make videos that taunt us, and then think they are going to Alah because they killed 1000 of us, they are crazy.

Now, I am not going to make this a are you pro/con against Muslims, but its true, we have all seen thier capabilities.

Don't get me started about the Iraq/Afghan war, I have been there twice, my ex wife is there in Afghan now, and she had a tour to Iraq a while back too, so, I have seen first hand what they are capable of, and I am sure others have seen it as well.

Oh okay, so when they started shooting at Columbine and GA just recently, eventhough its not appropriate situations for them to start, didn't they go ahead and not give 2 shi*$s about the outcome? It doesn't matter, it's going to happen, and when SHTF, you will have no choice but to go into "fight" or "flight" mode. That's what we are programmed to do from birth, epinephrine/adrenaline do this for a reason.

And the Marine Corps is not always group punishment. You do have individual rights (i.e. good conduct/NAM, etc) so somethings are left up to your initiative, not everyone elses (i.e. PUC etc).

 

[tv1217]

Yeah, there's a bigass difference between a mall with a notice on the entrance saying no guns versus one with a vague rule that had to be pulled out of some book in an office. Plus, people need to stop treating carriers like they some kind of psychotic nutjob when there's nothing to indicate it.

 

[ocsdor]

If they would have drawn first and said some stupid Paul Blart stuff and told me to get down on the ground or some other bs, then I would've reached for it, maybe not drawn and pointed.

... and you would have gone to jail on felony charges.

Also, the story would have made the news, in which you would be made out to be a monster and all LTCH holders made out to be crazed hotheads.

The Marine Corps should have taught you the discipline to keep your cool when under stress. If they failed to do that, then I'm sure the badasses in a prison will.

 

[Dragon Talon TSi AWD]

... and you would have gone to jail on felony charges.

Also, the story would have made the news, in which you would be made out to be a monster and all LTCH holders made out to be crazed hotheads.

The Marine Corps should have taught you the discipline to keep your cool when under stress. If they failed to do that, then I'm sure the badasses in a prison will.

OMG, not this again. I even posted earlier, it was a joke. You honestly think I am going to "draw" my firearm when they have "mace?" My kids were there. They are obviously outmatched, and yes, eventhough I am out numbered, they still didn't make the rules clear enough.

Okay, here is another Marine Corps expert and you probably haven't even served in the Corps. Don't tell me what you think they should've taught me and what they actually did. They did teach discipline (JJDIDTIEBUCKLE) and much more than you can understand, but you have to live it, but for every action there is a equal but opposite reaction (Newton). And they taught how to manage stress under fire, and bootcamp/MCT/FMF still, with all that training, when SHTF, its on you, no one else. You never even seen me in a fire fight, so how do you know I would react? DI's are the craziest ones I know, next some Force Recon Marines I served with, they all are alot worse than the "pog" Marine.

And why are you implying I am going to prison? I am still here, I am still typing away, with no adverse effects? So what are you trying to get at?

All that happened already, and nothing else has come of it.

I called and left a message on the malls PR relations desk. I got transferred to their desk, so I left a message.

 

[Dragon Talon TSi AWD]

... and you would have gone to jail on felony charges.

Also, the story would have made the news, in which you would be made out to be a monster and all LTCH holders made out to be crazed hotheads.

The Marine Corps should have taught you the discipline to keep your cool when under stress. If they failed to do that, then I'm sure the badasses in a prison will.

And if you are going to quote, take the whole quote.... Not bits and pieces...

 

[GhostofWinter]

I didn't see this in the 6 pages of this thread so I am going to post it now. I am NOT going to get into a pissing contest over it either. This is my one and ONLY post in this thread.

The fact that you are not allowed to carry in the mall even though you have your LTCH is outright horsesh!T!! HOWEVER the mall is NOT public property. it is OWNED by Westfield which means it is PRIVATE property and as such they can enact rules such as no handguns allowed. Failure to comply when asked to leave would result in YOU being arrested for trespassing. The fact that you had a gun is irrelevant. The facts as you laid out where that you were asked to either take the handgun out to the car and/or lock it up, or leave the premises. You yourself stated that you refused to leave which constitutes trespassing as I read the statues. Good thing there wasn't a cop at the substation or you might have been wearing silver bracelets.

NOW...all that being said the simple solution is if you don't like the rules don't go in.

Greg

 

[Srtsi4wd]

I didn't see this in the 6 pages of this thread so I am going to post it now. I am NOT going to get into a pissing contest over it either. This is my one and ONLY post in this thread.

The fact that you are not allowed to carry in the mall even though you have your LTCH is outright horsesh!T!! HOWEVER the mall is NOT public property. it is OWNED by Westfield which means it is PRIVATE property and as such they can enact rules such as no handguns allowed. Failure to comply when asked to leave would result in YOU being arrested for trespassing. The fact that you had a gun is irrelevant. The facts as you laid out where that you were asked to either take the handgun out to the car and/or lock it up, or leave the premises. You yourself stated that you refused to leave which constitutes trespassing as I read the statues. Good thing there wasn't a cop at the substation or you might have been wearing silver bracelets.

NOW...all that being said the simple solution is if you don't like the rules don't go in.

Greg

Having done the same as Greg in reading all 6 pages I have to agree with him. Being ignorant of the policies of the facility does not give you an exemption, irregardless of whether or not they are posted at every entrance. Do you see a rundown of Indiana State Law at every road that crosses in from a neighbor state? Does that change anything?
I'm sure the Rent-a-Blarts were d*cks, but they were simply doing their job. I know now that when I receive my LTCH I will careful CC and play dumb if caught. Same as I will do at the University Park mall in South Bend. Is there a thread listing the anti-gun businesses in Indiana? If so can someone point me to it and if there isn't, there should be.
It really sucks that happened to you, but all of the rest of us should take it as a warning.

... and to all the Veterans in this thread and on this site... Thank You.

MikeD

 

[Rlee]

99% of us are saying the same thing...

The other 1% is going to wind up in the news/jail for trying to "stand up for themselves".

I've said it once and I'll say it again, there is a place and a time to fight the policies.

For that 1% ...

 

[greyhound47]

The Simon's own and operate a huge chunk of the malls in the midwest, and possibly over half of the malls in Indiana.

They're notorious for not being "gun friendly" - many a people have been asked to leave Simon Malls, though I have never had even the slightest issue.

Yet, Glenbrook Mall in Fort Wayne has had a problem with RAPES in the parking lot! Not just one or two, mind you. This was, and is, planned and organized gang rapes that start with recon in the mall........

yet they are worried about a law abiding citizen's gun?