If you are asked to leave, do you have to pay?

[Ted]

You are correct. However it is called conversion and is still a misdemeanor while armed.....not good..

IC 35-43-4-1
Definitions
Sec. 1. (a) As used in this chapter, "exert control over property" means to obtain, take, carry, drive, lead away, conceal, abandon, sell, convey, encumber, or possess property, or to secure, transfer, or extend a right to property.
(b) Under this chapter, a person's control over property of another person is "unauthorized" if it is exerted:
(1) without the other person's consent;
(2) in a manner or to an extent other than that to which the other person has consented;
(3) by transferring or encumbering other property while failing to disclose a lien, adverse claim, or other legal impediment to the enjoyment of that other property;
(4) by creating or confirming a false impression in the other person;
(5) by failing to correct a false impression that the person knows is influencing the other person, if the person stands in a relationship of special trust to the other person;
(6) by promising performance that the person knows will not be performed;
(7) by expressing an intention to damage the property or impair the rights of any other person; or
(8) by transferring or reproducing:
(A) recorded sounds; or
(B) a live performance;
without consent of the owner of the master recording or the live performance, with intent to distribute the reproductions for a profit.

Again Just sayin....If you buy something or order it and recieve it,,Pay for it. It doesn't have anything to do with thier beliefs or policies or yours. Remember from Kinderkarten, Two wrongs don.t make a right. Be the bigger man and pay. Then you can boycott them or get on INGO and *****....

There is a world of difference between criminal conversion and armed robbery, as you've just pointed out.

However, would you also pay for your check if you were down to your last fork stab or spoonful, and discoverd a maggot in the bottom of the bowl? I certainly wouldn't and am sure that nobody else would either, despite the fact that the maggot probably wouldn't be of any real health consequence.

Dining is not just about the food, how good it tastes, or how its prepared. Its about the service and the ambiance of the experience. Take that part away from the meal, and the entire experience has been tainted......and then whom is committing criminal conversion upon whom?

 

[Shootsforfun]

There is a world of difference between criminal conversion and armed robbery, as you've just pointed out.

However, would you also pay for your check if you were down to your last fork stab or spoonful, and discoverd a maggot in the bottom of the bowl? I certainly wouldn't and am sure that nobody else would either, despite the fact that the maggot probably wouldn't be of any real health consequence.

Dining is not just about the food, how good it tastes, or how its prepared. Its about the service and the ambiance of the experience. Take that part away from the meal, and the entire experience has been tainted......and then whom is committing criminal conversion upon whom?

Yes I agree there is a world of difference, However as I said two wrongs do not make a right...As far as your comparison goes, we're talking apples and oranges, We aren't talking about bad service we are talking political views..

 

[longbarrel]

Only a complete idiot would give a tip.

Id pay for the meal and tell em se ya!!!

Jimmy

Why?

 

[IndyDave1776]

As mentioned previously, it really depends on the situation. If they box the meal up for you, and are courteous and apologetic, I would not only pay for the meal, but tip as well. However, if they are rude throughout the situation, sometimes you can't leave quick enough!

At that point, you are not getting what you paid for. If I pay the premium for the leisurely use of a table and am denied that, getting a box is not an acceptable substitute. If I wanted carryout, I would have ordered carryout.

 

[Magneto]

I read a story (maybe here on INGO but I don't remember) of a person who was asked to leave a restaurant after they had ordered, but before their food arrived. The restaurant had called the cops. The people were asked to leave, and they went to leave and refused to pay for their food. The police forced them to pay for their food then they had to wait for it to show up after being thrown out. What a crock of .

 

[revance]

If the restaurant had an "unarmed victims" sign that I chose to ignore, I would pay if they presented me with the bill before leaving. After all, I chose to ignore their rules.

However if there was no sign and no way for me to know ahead of time, I am not going to pay for a meal that I was not allowed to finish.

 

[revance]

I read a story (maybe here on INGO but I don't remember) of a person who was asked to leave a restaurant after they had ordered, but before their food arrived. The restaurant had called the cops. The people were asked to leave, and they went to leave and refused to pay for their food. The police forced them to pay for their food then they had to wait for it to show up after being thrown out. What a crock of .

If that is a true story, I would say its a case of some anti-gun zealot cops overstepping their power.

I would have refused and left. Lets see the cops arrest you for not paying for food you didn't get... I doubt it would end well in court for them.

 

[johnny45]

I was only asked to leave once.....

My sidearms were fully visable when I walked in, our meal was served, and towards the end we were asked to leave.

I asked for my bill.
Paid it.
Left a sizable tip.
Informed them that I would never visit the establishment again and would let all those I know what happened so they could make an informed decision.

 

[Ted]

.......As far as your comparison goes, we're talking apples and oranges, We aren't talking about bad service we are talking political views..

Being asked to leave because they have a problem with the free exercise of not only an accepted, but an enumerated right........in both the Federal and State Constitution, is not political. Its ideological.

Secondly, bad service includes the infringement upon the pleasantry of the eating experience.

 

[CathyInBlue]

Two wrongs may not make a right, but three lefts do.

 

[Prometheus]

So screw over the server that had nothing to do with management policy.

Unless I thought the sever was part of the request to leave, I'd tip her/him.

As to paying for the meal strait out?

I guess that means what "end of the meal"... means.

i.e. am I finished and about to leave anyway? Yes, pay for it.

Am I half way thru my fillet? If they let me make it that far before saying anything, they need let me finish my meal. They cut me off early? I won't be paying. They break the contract, I don't have to fulfill my end of it.

 

[DEstes001]

I will confess I did not read all 130 posts, and I am only playing the devil's advocate anyway, but if we are a conceal carry state, we should be responsible enough to not even allow our firearm to be noticed in the first place. I wish I were more informed on our laws regarding this though. Is it illegal to carry a gun if it is visible to the public? I make sure mine is not as to not intimidate someone who may not like guns. Just curious. But as to the question at hand, I agree with the majority, pay my bill, leave a nice tip, and politely inform the management I will never be back.

 

[Ted]

I will confess I did not read all 130 posts, and I am only playing the devil's advocate anyway, but if we are a conceal carry state, we should be responsible enough to not even allow our firearm to be noticed in the first place. I wish I were more informed on our laws regarding this though. Is it illegal to carry a gun if it is visible to the public? I make sure mine is not as to not intimidate someone who may not like guns. Just curious. But as to the question at hand, I agree with the majority, pay my bill, leave a nice tip, and politely inform the management I will never be back.

The law is silent upon the issue, so we have the option to CC or OC in Indiana.

 

[Signal23]

Two wrongs may not make a right, but three lefts do.

EVOC paying off!!

 

[Libertarian01]

To All,

As I see it there seem to be two (2) general viewpoints on this issues.

Viewpoint #1) A restaurant meal is more than food, it is an experience. Disturb the experience and you have ruined the patrons night out. Whether or not the food was ingested is for the most part irrelevant.

Viewpoint #2) A restaurant meal is just food. The exchange of money for nutrients are all that is involved. As long as the food was delivered and ingested the restaurant owner has, for the most part, completed their side of the contract.

I generally fall into category #1. Tonight, while waiting to pick up my Tuesday group I went to the local Mexican restaurant to sit down and study in quite for my science test this coming Friday. I wanted to eat, relax, chat a bit with the waitress I know, and get in almost two (2) full hours of review. If anything had disturbed that I would have been SOL! I would have had to re-navigate, maybe (?) find another restaurant close by, maybe (?) have a quiet setting and get a lot less studying done. My restaurant experience was more than just nutrient ingestion.

So had I been kicked out for some silly reason you would have heard about it down in Indy! I would have been PO'ed to the Nth degree.

My evil Mr. Hyde has whispered a little thought in my ear. Don't think Mr. Hyde doesn't exist in all of us - he does. I just admit to him.

Here is what Mr. Hyde was reminding me of:

For anyone in this circumstance in Indiana who may (?) be forced to pay, go ahead and do it. You can turn around and sue the restaurant for breach of contract and mental anguish. The contract thing comes from not enjoying you meal to its completion in the setting where you intended to. The mental anguish comes from getting the small claims lawsuit to over $1k. It won't matter whether you get the award or not, that is irrelevant.

The relevant issue is an Indiana Law that says that anytime a corporation is sued for, IIRC, over $750, then they MUST be represented in court by an attorney. Do you know how much it costs to drag an attorney into court? A heck of a lot more than the doofus restaurant got out of your meal. As most restaurants will be incorporated for legal protection you can rest assured that they will never, ever want to get dragged into court again.

Don't listen to Mr. Hyde too much, but do be aware that very nasty things like this could happen. This is just a nasty, vindictive thought that came to mind that I will share.

Regards,

Doug

 

[johnny45]

I will confess I did not read all 130 posts, and I am only playing the devil's advocate anyway, but if we are a conceal carry state, we should be responsible enough to not even allow our firearm to be noticed in the first place. I wish I were more informed on our laws regarding this though. Is it illegal to carry a gun if it is visible to the public? I make sure mine is not as to not intimidate someone who may not like guns. Just curious. But as to the question at hand, I agree with the majority, pay my bill, leave a nice tip, and politely inform the management I will never be back.

LOL!!!!

That is some funny dung right there....

Umm.... 'we' are not a concealed carry State.

Are your rights contingent upon not offending the sensibility of others?

Please tell me, spammaster...... I am soooo interested.

 

[actaeon277]

I will confess I did not read all 130 posts, and I am only playing the devil's advocate anyway, but if we are a conceal carry state, we should be responsible enough to not even allow our firearm to be noticed in the first place. I wish I were more informed on our laws regarding this though. Is it illegal to carry a gun if it is visible to the public? I make sure mine is not as to not intimidate someone who may not like guns. Just curious. But as to the question at hand, I agree with the majority, pay my bill, leave a nice tip, and politely inform the management I will never be back.

We are not a conceal carry state.
We are a CARRY state.
You can open or conceal.

Remember, even if you conceal, it is NOT INVISIBLE.
You can be outed.

 

[danielson]

The OC vs CC debate will rage on forever.. Its usually one side saying, be discreet, and dont force others to come out of their little dream worlds. The other side saying, screw them, its my right.

Your both right. its a difference in personality.

Some like to use a stiletto, others prefer a big hammer.

 

[eldirector]

The OC vs CC debate will rage on forever.. Its usually one side saying, be discreet, and dont force others to come out of their little dream worlds. The other side saying, screw them, its my right.

Your both right. its a difference in personality.

Some like to use a stiletto, others prefer a big hammer.

Don't forget the third, more rational, side: just effing carry and get over it already. No one much cares, and it is a personal choice.

I'm wondering how often folks really get asked to leave, simply for a visible handgun? After all these years, I've yet to be asked. We'll be heading out for a nice dinner again this evening (early V-day dinner out). I suspect it will be the same pleasant experience as usual.

These little thought exercises are entertaining, but I think we only saw one real-life example in this thread. Has anyone else had an actual encounter of this sort that they can share?

 

[JeffM]

IMO... If I'm DONE eating, out of courtesy I'll pay for the food I ate but I will NOT tip. Not sure of legalities though.

I would still tip if the service was good. It's not the server's fault.