Gun Temporarily Confiscated to Check if Stolen

[24Carat]

Not condoning the manner in which he took your pistol but we get stolen guns from LTCHers quite often. Those private sales, you never know if you are buys a stolen gun or not.

Does that give you PC?

 

[Trigger Time]

I'm sorry for your experience. Coming from one of the "king's men" it probably doesn't mean much, but I can assure you that not all of us act the same way and do our best to educate those that are ignorant of the law.

I see what you did there.

We are thankful for you that don't act like that and a big THANKS for educating other officers! It's hard to be against the policies of departments or the brass or their elected bosses and not seem like we are against all of the kings men too. I actually hate the thought of being "cold" to an officer if I got stopped and not shooting the crap, but its because of guys like the one in the ops post that I just don't answer questions or state I have a weapon. It's not because I'm anti-social, especially to probly a fellow gun person (cop).

 

[Classic]

Not condoning the manner in which he took your pistol but we get stolen guns from LTCHers quite often. Those private sales, you never know if you are buys a stolen gun or not.

Produce data or this is BS. Having a LTCH does not constitute PC for search or seizure. What crap.

 

[Trigger Time]

Sent Guy a PM and I know all LEO's are not like this. In fact, your jobs are hard enough that was I generally let them know I am carrying. Twice before I stopped by the ISP I informed and they just asked me to keep my hands where they could see them. When done they both asked what I carried and short conversation ensued and then have a nice day..

I will file a complaint just as soon I hear back from Guy. I will hand deliver the complaint when I pay the fine to the town.

Good for you for being proactive and filing a complaint rather than just complaining on the Internet and never causing a change. So +1.

Now the part where I disagree with you. In my opinion you actualy just made SOME officers job harder by informing of a gun. (I say some because guys like frank or denny would just shoot the poo with you and never go back to work and theres more good ones like them) But some officers on edge now they might have clicked into a higher awareness or stress mode. If you had it hidden and they never seen it then how is not informing making their job harder? Your legal and you know you'd never harm the Leo, so he was never in any danger.
Now if your rolling around with a gang banger in your passenger seat and ges packing then you already have bigger problems so then you might wanna inform the officer, lol.

 

[Kirk Freeman]

and the nice guy I am informed the officer I was carrying

We have told you about this. It does nothing for ya and only hurts ya.

Under Richardson I am skeptical over the legality the extrajudicial coonfingering.

 

[Frank_N_Stein]

It's hard to be against the policies of departments or the brass or their elected bosses and not seem like we are against all of the kings men too.

I would like to read McCordsville PD's "policy." I can tell you that IMPD does not have one. As far as going against the brass or elected boss, their opinion on the matter doesn't hold any weight if their opinion wants me to do something illegal.

 

[Smokepole]

Not condoning the manner in which he took your pistol but we get stolen guns from LTCHers quite often. Those private sales, you never know if you are buys a stolen gun or not.

Not looking to be a wiseguy but, please define "quite often"? It is afterall a very relative term. And does that somehow constitute PC? or even RS?

 

[Trigger Time]

I would like to read McCordsville PD's "policy." I can tell you that IMPD does not have one. As far as going against the brass or elected boss, their opinion on the matter doesn't hold any weight if their opinion wants me to do something illegal.

And that last sentence is why your a fine police officer in my opinion and many others. Well it's fact.

 

[Smokepole]

I see what you did there.

We are thankful for you that don't act like that and a big THANKS for educating other officers! It's hard to be against the policies of departments or the brass or their elected bosses and not seem like we are against all of the kings men too. I actually hate the thought of being "cold" to an officer if I got stopped and not shooting the crap, but its because of guys like the one in the ops post that I just don't answer questions or state I have a weapon. It's not because I'm anti-social, especially to probly a fellow gun person (cop).

^^^^^^^^^^^^THIS^^^^^^^^^^^

 

[Trigger Time]

Not looking to be a wiseguy but, please define "quite often"? It is afterall a very relative term. And does that somehow constitute PC? or even RS?

I'm sure he will define it. I believe him if he says it but sure lets define it just for curiosity sake. I love personal sales and believe they should be protected and kept legal, but this is one reason they do scare me. Even if I make sure the guy I buy it from is legal and all, the guy he got it from might not have been but if I'm the one "caught" with it then ill be the one out the money and if I can't prove I didn't steal it then maybe get a record. (And Not the singing kind).
Plus I do feel bad because even if you have a stolen gun and you never find out, there is still some innocent gun owner out there who is a victim and at a loss.
I didn't realize this was such a problem until Denny posted that. Concerning!!

 

[AndersonIN]

I would like to read McCordsville PD's "policy." I can tell you that IMPD does not have one. As far as going against the brass or elected boss, their opinion on the matter doesn't hold any weight if their opinion wants me to do something illegal.

I just emailed the Training Officer of McCordsville PD and hope to be able to let you know shortly!

 

[VERT]

I'm sure he will define it. I believe him if he says it but sure lets define it just for curiosity sake. I love personal sales and believe they should be protected and kept legal, but this is one reason they do scare me. Even if I make sure the guy I buy it from is legal and all, the guy he got it from might not have been but if I'm the one "caught" with it then ill be the one out the money and if I can't prove I didn't steal it then maybe get a record. (And Not the singing kind).
Plus I do feel bad because even if you have a stolen gun and you never find out, there is still some innocent gun owner out there who is a victim and at a loss.
I didn't realize this was such a problem until Denny posted that. Concerning!!

My buddies who are LEO both talk about finding "stolen" guns being carried by people who have LTCH. So I do believe that it happens and is probably more frequent then we care to admit. But there is no way to stop it from happening. Think about it, if you buy a used pistol at a gun shop it could still be a stolen gun. NICS is checking you not the gun. Maybe somebody will correct me but I don't think that the serial number of a firearm is checked against a database just because it gets traded or sold by a person with an FFL. There would be a record/receipt of the transaction.

 

[Denny347]

Does that give you PC?

As I said, I'm not condoning it. I was just responding to the notion that the pistol was obviously NOT stolen since it was taken from a LTCHer. Not true.

 

[Denny347]

Produce data or this is BS. Having a LTCH does not constitute PC for search or seizure. What crap.

AS I SAID!!!!! I"M NOT CONDONING THE TAKING OF THE PISTOL!!!!

I was ONLY commenting about the notion that a pistol carried by a LTCHer would obviously not stolen...that's untrue. Calling BS? I have no stats but I've found stolen guns on many LTCH holders. They ALL bought them from "friends of friends". Good Lord, lighten up Francis.

 

[Denny347]

Not looking to be a wiseguy but, please define "quite often"? It is afterall a very relative term. And does that somehow constitute PC? or even RS?

SIGH!!!! OK, I DON"T take guns on traffic stops unless I have a reason. Since I don't make too many traffic stops, my run-ins with pistol carriers where I DO take the gun involves me responding to disturbances, fights, domestics, etc. In those rare instances where I do take a pistol from a LTCHer and run it, they come up stolen about 30-40% of the time. No charges, I just take it to the property room. We don't keep stats on how many stolen guns were owned by LTCH holders.

 

[Fedempl]

As I said, I'm not condoning it. I was just responding to the notion that the pistol was obviously NOT stolen since it was taken from a LTCHer. Not true.

If the LEO wants to run the serial number then all they have do to is ask what the number is or request to take the weapon, knowing ful well chances are they will be told 'No". With that said, they have no right to confiscate/seize the weapon no matter for how long without RS or PC. If stolen weapons are that much of a problem with LTCHers then there should be a better way to check the number other than making an assumption and seizing the weapon without a warrant or valid reason.

 

[Fedempl]

SIGH!!!! OK, I DON"T take guns on traffic stops unless I have a reason. Since I don't make too many traffic stops, my run-ins with pistol carriers where I DO take the gun involves me responding to disturbances, fights, domestics, etc. In those rare instances where I do take a pistol from a LTCHer and run it, they come up stolen about 30-40% of the time. No charges, I just take it to the property room. We don't keep stats on how many stolen guns were owned by LTCH holders.

Not being an A**, but 30-40% seems awful high. that would equate to approximately 5-10% of LTCHers are carrying stolen weapons, which is roughly 20,000 to 40,000 license holders in Indiana alone. I just don't see that many legal carriers carrying stolen weapons.

 

[Denny347]

If the LEO wants to run the serial number then all they have do to is ask what the number is or request to take the weapon, knowing ful well chances are they will be told 'No". With that said, they have no right to confiscate/seize the weapon no matter for how long without RS or PC. If stolen weapons are that much of a problem with LTCHers then there should be a better way to check the number other than making an assumption and seizing the weapon without a warrant or valid reason.

We are allowed to run serial numbers of objects in plain sight or under legal control. The question here is the officer's legality of the control. The rub is that there is no clear ruling on this regard. Generally, the courts allow quite a bit a leeway to officers in regards to officer safety. There are very good arguments here for this being illegal however, our opinions on this are not binding and I look forward to someone actually getting a court ruling. So far no one has.

 

[raptrbreth]

So for arguments sake how would one check if a weapon was stolen? Is there some magic database out there?

 

[Denny347]

Not being an A**, but 30-40% seems awful high. that would equate to approximately 5-10% of LTCHers are carrying stolen weapons, which is roughly 20,000 to 40,000 license holders in Indiana alone. I just don't see that many legal carriers carrying stolen weapons.

Woah woah, tap the breaks a bit. I'm not going around doing a "blind sample" of legal carriers. I'm called to a scene. One of the actors involved is a LTCH holder and is armed. I will only take control of the gun if the holder is involved in my scene. It is under that control that I run the numbers. So, while they are LTCH holders, it doesn't mean they are not knuckle heads who hang with shady people or decent people who hang with shady people. That is what's wrong with STATS. They are so easy to misinterpret. My 30-40% is of those people I have reason to remove their pistol. That is much different that 30-40% of ALL LTCHers.

In the end, you buy a gun from a stranger, how would you know it WASN'T stolen? I would imagine there are a lot of good people that have stolen guns they would have never dreamed of and will likely never know they are stolen.

I had my duty pistol stolen from my house 16yrs ago. It was recovered 6 years ago from a LTCH holder. He had no idea it was stolen when he bought it from a friend...who bought it from a friend...who bought it from someone else...etc etc.