Zionsville Attempting to Restrict Rural Shooting

[amboy49]

Zionsville ordinance

Why does it matter what issue?

The ISSUE is that this proposed ordinance could stop land owners and their permitted users from shooting their firearms on private land. Perhaps you don't see that as a problem for you - maybe you don't live in Eagle or Union Township in Boone County. I hope where you live you have unlimited and unrestricted use of a site to exercise your right to own and shoot firearms in Indiana.

 

[cbrooke]

This is an important issue for every gun owner in Indiana. From what I can find this is first attempt by a town to limit/eliminate the use of firearms in a RURAL area. If this passes this will set forth a precedent that other towns can follow and implement. Keep in mind Zionsville is largely pro gun and if it happens here it will spread as sure as the sun rises. At this time there is an agenda setting meeting on Monday the 29th at 7am. But the public debate on the subject is set for August 5th at 7pm at the Zionsville Town Hall. I urge all of you Zionsville residents to speak out against this at the town meeting and stop it before it goes into effect. If you are not a resident of the town please come and cheer on your fellow gun rights supporters. We are all under siege and we can not afford to give in on these fights. Remember the mission of the gun control group is not to take a bite out of us like a shark but to nibble one bite at a time like a pack of piranha.

 

[cbrooke]

Please keep us apprised of this issue. I am a Zionsville "rural" area resident. I currently practice for IDPA and USPSA shooting on a friend's sixty acre rural tract. This could result in that being curtailed although I think we should be able to stay 150 yards from neighboring property boundaries.

Be careful of that sense because this could be interpreted to determine that shooting is not measured from where you are standing but along the route of trajectory. Also not the language says 150 yards or "within range of". Bottom line we cant limit people to have no ability to shoot on their own property.

 

[Kirk Freeman]

What problems, if any, have there been?

What problem is this ordinance to address?

 

[j706]

Wow this really blows! No doubt the yuppie soccer mom has been attempting to get some local attention. I almost wonder if it wouldn't be wise to just get in touch with state lawmakers and see if they would get to work on making this illegal. From what I know of local politics gun owners can put 10,000 people at that meeting and they will still pass whatever they want to pass.

 

[2500ekW]

I live on the edge of the Zionsville urban area and can hear gunshots in the distance on many Saturdays and Sundays. I happen to enjoy the sound, but I can see why that might cause a lot of complaints to the police. I also happen to attend most town council meetings, so I will be voicing my opinion on this one, even if it doesn't directly effect me.

I think they are very touchy about this right now for some reason. I recently had a disagreement with town employees about BB guns in the urban area. There is no ordinance restricting BB guns explicitly, but there is an ordinance restricting "devices that sound like guns." According to the ZPD, a BB gun's 'snap' fits this description.

On a related note, if the person that I hear shooting on weekends west of town near 334 happens to be on Ingo, let me know. I'd love to come make some noise with you!

 

[sempreobie]

I live in rural Zville, within a mile or two of the newer or developing subdivisions along 334. It is not uncommon to hear gun fire from time to time in this area and I can just imagine non-gun owners (INNGOers) moving in from "perceived safe" urban areas are quick to jump on board with the person/persons leading this ordinance push. I will be staying tuned in and hope to hear some more ideas on how to help prevent this from passage.

 

[2500ekW]

I live in rural Zville, within a mile or two of the newer or developing subdivisions along 334. It is not uncommon to hear gun fire from time to time in this area and I can just imagine non-gun owners (INNGOers) moving in from "perceived safe" urban areas are quick to jump on board with the person/persons leading this ordinance push. I will be staying tuned in and hope to hear some more ideas on how to help prevent this from passage.

I fear that the flashy and trendy new neighborhoods are attracting the same kind of people to Zionsville that I moved here from Chicago to avoid!

 

[sempreobie]

Guess I might need to start looking for pellet gun suppression so I can continue dealing with my ground squirrel issues!

 

[amboy49]

The email contact information for three of the Town Council members is as folllows:

Jeff Papa jpapa@zionsville-in.gov Town Council President
Candice Ulmer culmer@zionsville-in.gov Union Township member
Tim Haak thaak@zionsville-in.gov Eagle Township member of District 2


I've sent an email to these three requesting the rationale behind this proposed ordinance, their personal view(s) on it, and when and where public comment will be accepted.

I am awaiting their responses. I am also making a Google search of the history of the consolidation initiative in 2007 inclusive of reviewing the minutes of the meetings and the promises made re: the intent to retain the "rural" lifestyle and land use stated by various committee members during the time the issue was being debated. I am requesting any information that can be used to combat this ordinance in a sensible and coherent manner. After more research, I'm more convinced than ever the Zionsville housewife and mother who started the Million Moms for Gun Control is behind all of this and has gained the ear of some, if not all, of the council members.

 

[amboy49]

I live on the edge of the Zionsville urban area and can hear gunshots in the distance on many Saturdays and Sundays. I happen to enjoy the sound, but I can see why that might cause a lot of complaints to the police. I also happen to attend most town council meetings, so I will be voicing my opinion on this one, even if it doesn't directly effect me.

I think they are very touchy about this right now for some reason. I recently had a disagreement with town employees about BB guns in the urban area. There is no ordinance restricting BB guns explicitly, but there is an ordinance restricting "devices that sound like guns." According to the ZPD, a BB gun's 'snap' fits this description.

On a related note, if the person that I hear shooting on weekends west of town near 334 happens to be on Ingo, let me know. I'd love to come make some noise with you!

To the best of my knowledge there is no current ordinance against discharging firearms in the rural area of the Town. I'm not sure what Town employee you spoke with, but I'm pretty confident he/she, along with the ZPD officer, are misinformed. Did they cite the ordinance now in effect re: BB guns, or any firearm noise related issues ? If memory serves me correctly, several years ago the Boone County officials tried to prevent an Eagle Township resident from building his own skeet range on Hunt Club Road in Eagle Township. At the time the site was not in the Town boundaries but is now included in the rural area. The owner refused to knuckle under and took the county to court and won his case. The county then took the issue to the appellate court and again lost. I believe this skeet range is still in operation and being used with some regularity.

 

[hornadylnl]

What problems, if any, have there been?

What problem is this ordinance to address?

I think landowners with ranges on their property should have to get permits and get inspected by the range Marshall. Your right to shoot on your property doesn't trump your neighbors right to not be shot by you.

 

[DoggyDaddy]

I think landowners with ranges on their property should have to get permits and get inspected by the range Marshall. Your right to shoot on your property doesn't trump your neighbors right to not be shot by you.

I hope that first sentence was supposed to be in purple. I agree that your neighbors have a reasonable right to be safe from your shooting activities (following the basic 4 rules should accomplish this), but permits and inspections, I do not agree with, as long as the shooting activity is limited to you, family and friends. If you're planning on basically making a public range on your property, then that's another matter.

 

[GodFearinGunTotin]

I hope that first sentence was supposed to be in purple. I agree that your neighbors have a reasonable right to be safe from your shooting activities (following the basic 4 rules should accomplish this), but permits and inspections, I do not agree with, as long as the shooting activity is limited to you, family and friends. If you're planning on basically making a public range on your property, then that's another matter.

He's tying this thread in with the one about permits being required for live music in a bar.

 

[DoggyDaddy]

He's tying this thread in with the one about permits being required for live music in a bar.

Ah, I guess I haven't seen that one.

 

[hornadylnl]

I hope that first sentence was supposed to be in purple. I agree that your neighbors have a reasonable right to be safe from your shooting activities (following the basic 4 rules should accomplish this), but permits and inspections, I do not agree with, as long as the shooting activity is limited to you, family and friends. If you're planning on basically making a public range on your property, then that's another matter.

I like to participate in selective nannyism like most others around here.

 

[GuyRelford]

What problems, if any, have there been?
,
What problem is this ordinance to address?

Kirk - as far as I can tell, no one has ever been injured by an accidental shooting across property lines in Zionsville. It appears to me that this arises from a few landowners complaining to the town council that their neighbors have "gun ranges" on their property.

Last year, I had to point out to the Zionsville planning commission that it was not a zoning violation for a person to have a range on his residential property in the rural district, where the property was zoned Residential and the primary use of the property was residential. In a case right out of Zionsville, the Indiana Court of Appeals has held that a shooting range is a an appropriate secondary use of residential property in a rural area. See Boone County Planning Com'n v. Kennedy.

Since the anti-gun crowd in Zionsville couldn't use the zoning ordinance to restrict our rights, they're going for a whole new ordinance.

Guy

 

[j706]

I fear that the flashy and trendy new neighborhoods are attracting the same kind of people to Zionsville that I move here from Chicago to avoid!

You can bet that is exactly what is happening.

 

[j706]

Kirk - as far as I can tell, no one has ever been injured by an accidental shooting across property lines in Zionsville. It appears to me that this arises from a few landowners complaining to the town council that their neighbors have "gun ranges" on their property.

Last year, I had to point out to the Zionsville planning commission that it was not a zoning violation for a person to have a range on his residential property in the rural district, where the property was zoned Residential and the primary use of the property was residential. In a case right out of Zionsville, the Indiana Court of Appeals has held that a shooting range is a an appropriate secondary use of residential property in a rural area. See Boone County Planning Com'n v. Kennedy.

Since the anti-gun crowd in Zionsville couldn't use the zoning ordinance to restrict our rights, they're going for a whole new ordinance.

Guy

Any chance if this passed it could be reversed as unconstitutional ?

 

[amboy49]

I mentioned the previous issue with the county attempting to prevent a private skeet range in Eagle Township a number of years ago. Guy, thanks for providing the specific case information. To follow up, I received a reply from Mr. Papa in the form of a email re: my question to him about the proposed ordinance. To paraphrase - he said the council had received a "number" of complaints and this had been a topic of conversation amoung the councl members. The council will meet on August 5 and comments can be offered to the council at that time by filling our a comment card at the meeting. August 5th is not a long way away.

As I thought about this more another issue came to mind. The Zionsville Police are not the first law enforcement response in the rural areas. Eagle and Union Twn. are served by the Boone County Sheriff's Department and it's deputies. I am not certain re: the protocol for the 911 dispatch, but suffice to say the residents in Union Twn who live north of St.Rd 32 know for certain that a Zionsville police officer won't be showing up 6 miles north of the village on a call. Apparently Ken Campbell, the current sheriff who is very pro-gun rights, has indicated he is not in favor of this ordinance although his deputies will be required to respond to calls for this issue.

I also wondered if responding law enforcement will be "allowed" to come on to private property without a search warrant in the event of a complaint ? And . . . if the officer simply waits for cars to leave a site of suspected shooting will they be stopping vehicles for the purpose of inquiring about the occupants shooting ? Will a request be made to search the vehicle and persons for firearms ? If they are found, will possession constitute violation of the ordinance ?

I think I read this applies to the rural areas only. I am assuming there is already a similar ordinance pertaining to the urban areas of Zionsville but I will attempt to research this as well.

As I mentioned, I am not predicting this is going to go well. At best, an uphill fight. Hopefully, logic and common sense will prevail.