10.5 upper question?

[scott delaney]

im looking to buy a used 10.5 upper and was wondering to the leagal issues with buying it with out a tax stamp. it could be used as a ar pistol or SBR...i do have an ar-15 right now so does that mean i would be breaking the law or is it ok to have as long as it is not installed on the riffle?.....any goo advice would help...thank you

 

[Sparky03]

If one possess a ar15 long rifle lower and has in possession a 10.5 inch upper without ar pistol lower or reg sbr lower, then that falls into the intent to construct a unregistered sbr so if u must buy the upper my suggestion is to also buy a pistol ar15 lower untill sbr paperwork clears. If you do not want to buy pistol then store upper at a friend who has one of the 2 lowers.

 

[VUPDblue]

I believe ATF just ruled that that is no longer the case

 

[Titanium_Frost]

I believe ATF just ruled that that is no longer the case

Is that included in the T/C Contender decision?

 

[VUPDblue]

No, more recent than that.

 

[Titanium_Frost]

Interesting. It seems as if they have been doing a lot of backtracking since Clinton. I wonder if they are trying to avoid a Heller decision against their unconstitutional rulings against the Second Amendment.

 

[JTinIN]

Pickup an extra lower (as if we all don't need another one) that you will be building into a pistol in the future, when you get around to it. Nice easy $125 safety next ;-)

 

[Bert]

who would know you have it ? bring it home and put it up till your ready to build . its no ones business what is locked away in the safe .

 

[tradertator]

who would know you have it ? bring it home and put it up till your ready to build . its no ones business what is locked away in the safe .

Although I agree with you in theory, the stakes are just to high. I have a fear of 10 years of prison rape and a 1/4 million dollars in fines. Watch a couple of seasons of Oz, and you'll want to go the legal beagle route.

 

[tradertator]

I believe ATF just ruled that that is no longer the case

Do you any more info on this? Your among the handfull of guys on this forum that seems to be extremely well versed on this stuff.

 

[Psode27]

I have a pistol lower, but I wonder if along with my current 7.5" upper, if I bought a 10.5" extra upper while waiting for my sbr paperwork, is that okay? Does one pistol lower in theory cover owning a ton of sub 16" barrels? Does one sbr receiver cover you to own and use many sbr length uppers on that one sbr receiver? Don't want to thread jack, but I feel they are similar things.

 

[clonies]

who would know you have it ? bring it home and put it up till your ready to build . its no ones business what is locked away in the safe .

There is potential liablity for statements like that in case someone on here takes your advice and gets caught...

 

[JTinIN]

If one has a break in and there is a shooting at home, one can be almost be assured there will be a close check of any and all guns safes with your own pair of BATFE agents asking the same questions through out the day. A fire or B&E with out a shooting might not go as hard on a good day, but on a bad day one might also get one a few questions.

Bottom line it is always best if you can show some reason for owning a short barrel if you also have a way to make it into a "paperless" SBR. The $125 or less for a stripped receiver is cheep insurance, plus who does not "NEED" another AR some day.

Side question, who over age 35 on this board knows how many ARs they have with out the number being zero or looking at your inventory?

 

[2tonic]

One registered SBR lower entitles you to have as many NFA (read S.H.O.R.T.) uppers as you wish, PROVIDED.... you keep possession of an upper of the same length as you listed on your form1, or notify BATFE of a permanent change to a new length, and most importantly, you have 16"plus uppers on every assembled rifle lower you own. An assembled rifle lower with no upper for it ( except perhaps one of those lovely sub-16" lounging about your safe) is the textbook definition of "constructive intent" to build an illegal/un-registered SBR.

errata: I know there are 5 AR's currently residing comfortably in my safe, each tucked in with their respective suppressors. 2 of them are even barreled with the "small bowl of porridge" !!!

 

[Bert]

There is potential liablity for statements like that in case someone on here takes your advice and gets caught...

i've never even played a lawyer on t.v. . does that mean if I tell him to jump off a bridge , I could be held liable too?


not sure how many ar's 7 I think

 

[03A3]

SBR uppers are not hard to come by, and buying the upper first is going about it backwards.
1-Buy a good complete lower, then put a known good 16"+ upper on it and fire several hundred rounds thru it to check it for proper function.
2-After the lower checks out as good, have it engraved.
3-Once you receive the lower back from the engraver, submit a Form 1.
4-After receiving the approved Form 1, buy an SBR upper.

 

[Drakkule]

2-After the lower checks out as good, have it engraved.
3-Once you receive the lower back from the engraver, submit a Form 1.

I was told by the BATF to wait until i receive my approval form 1 back before i have the lower engraved. I am waiting on them to be approved, then i can take the lowers to get engraved, am i doing it wrong?

 

[2tonic]

Yes, you're doing it wrong. Get the engraving done first, so if the engraver makes an error you can send in a form 1 with the correct info. If you send in the form first and then the tool makes a mistake your lower won't match your form 1 data and that's a potential problem.

Admittedly, if you use one of the pro engravers promoted on this site, the chances of an engraving error are pretty slight, but it pays to CYA because it's your *.

 

[03A3]

Not only is there the slim chance of the engraver making a mistake, but if you ship a receiver to an engraver there is the possibility of the receiver being lost or damaged in transit.
You need to have in your possesion a known, good receiver that has been engraved before you proceed with the ATF paperwork.
You can do it any combination of ways, but going about it any way other than the above is setting yourself up for the possibility of having to go thru a paperwork ordeal with the ATF if something goes wrong.

Added : Thinking about what the BATFE told Drakkule, I believe once you receive an approved Form 1 you would be in violation for possesing a registered receiver that did not have the required engraving.
Also I'm not sure where you would stand as far as shipping a registered receiver to an engraver.
Someone that is knowledgeable could clarify this.

 

[Drakkule]

I plan on taking the receivers in to be engraved while i wait, so there should be no chance of shipping damage, if by some chance the engraver screws up, can i amend the paperwork with the BATF? If not, i can have the receiver filled in, and re engraved, yeah i know it would be a pain but it can be done.