1000 yard gun - .300 or .338 laupa???

[slow1911s]

If paper is your first objective at 1k, I'd look really hard at .243. With the heavier bullets available now (e.g. 115 gr DTAC) you're on par with 6.5-284 with brass that a helluva lot cheaper and easier to find. More info here: .243 Win + .243 AI Cartridge Guide

Yeah, yeah - not the punch of .300 or bigger, but you have to get there first. Like Rhino said, part of getting there is building a load that works. .300 and .338 get there, and then some (Look up the 338 Edge that Shawn Carlock builds - oh baby!). But, you can learn to shoot at that range with .243 or .308 and be money ahead in the process.

 

[JTinIN]

Have a Sako TRG-42 in 338 LM and a couple friends have Desert Tactical which include a 338 LM barrel, all running Nightforce 5.5x22 scopes. They all work well for "plinking" from 100 yards to near a mile and is a nice balance between recoil (with suppressor or brake there is nearly no recoil) and being able to see your impact at a distance, when doing field shooting. The 300 Win is a little nicer to shoot IMO with out the brake (which is a pain if you in a line of shooters).

The 50BMG has the advantage at shoots where one is using API or tracer to see were you are impacting, which is theory you can do with a 300 Win Mag but really almost never do (there was one shoot in Co that had a 35 to 55 MPH "light wind", that I use tracer's in the 308 just to see where I was hitting, but that is the exception to the rule and another thread ....).

While reloading for the 338 LM brings to cost down (since using H5010 powder at a few dollars a pound from the old days, primers from a friend who also gave me a brick of bullets ... way down for me ;-) the rifle is really a special purpose rifle that goes well with at least one other smaller accurate rifle (.243 thru 30 cal). The Desert Tactical makes an interesting option if one add one of their fast twist barrels in .243 and get to reuse the same scope (friends appear to come back to zero well, however, do have to have two set of settings as the 2nd barrel is subsonic ;-).

Myself the 338 LM worked well enough the Barrett M82A1 was let go, possible to be replaced by something in 50 BMG that is a little more accurate or a lot faster shooting if was younger (aka Ma Duce ;-). Thus if was going to stick with a 1000 yards and/or did not wish to shoot with a brake and/or did not reload I would recommend a 300 Win Mag but getting to like the 338 LM better each year ;-).

 

[MarioMarietta]

.338 in the Timberwolf they say with good glass that there is a 90% chance of hitting torso sized target every shot at 1200 yards. I was shooting 1,036 yards with Desert Tactical Suppressed and was hitting steel every shot.

[/IMG]

 

[MarioMarietta]

 

[MarioMarietta]

Was it Franks like in my picture below?

Have a Sako TRG-42 in 338 LM and a couple friends have Desert Tactical which include a 338 LM barrel, all running Nightforce 5.5x22 scopes. They all work well for "plinking" from 100 yards to near a mile and is a nice balance between recoil (with suppressor or brake there is nearly no recoil) and being able to see your impact at a distance, when doing field shooting. The 300 Win is a little nicer to shoot IMO with out the brake (which is a pain if you in a line of shooters).

The 50BMG has the advantage at shoots where one is using API or tracer to see were you are impacting, which is theory you can do with a 300 Win Mag but really almost never do (there was one shoot in Co that had a 35 to 55 MPH "light wind", that I use tracer's in the 308 just to see where I was hitting, but that is the exception to the rule and another thread ....).

While reloading for the 338 LM brings to cost down (since using H5010 powder at a few dollars a pound from the old days, primers from a friend who also gave me a brick of bullets ... way down for me ;-) the rifle is really a special purpose rifle that goes well with at least one other smaller accurate rifle (.243 thru 30 cal). The Desert Tactical makes an interesting option if one add one of their fast twist barrels in .243 and get to reuse the same scope (friends appear to come back to zero well, however, do have to have two set of settings as the 2nd barrel is subsonic ;-).

Myself the 338 LM worked well enough the Barrett M82A1 was let go, possible to be replaced by something in 50 BMG that is a little more accurate or a lot faster shooting if was younger (aka Ma Duce ;-). Thus if was going to stick with a 1000 yards and/or did not wish to shoot with a brake and/or did not reload I would recommend a 300 Win Mag but getting to like the 338 LM better each year ;-).

 

[JTinIN]

Small World ;-)

Same loadings (250gr SMK and Retumbo or H5101 powder) works very well in the Sako TRG-42, which just happened to be on TDY that weekend, at I am assuming the same shoot.



Regards
John

 

[phylodog]

I'd really like to get my hands on one of those Desert Tactical rifles. The bullpup design has always meant compromise concerning precision but it sounds like the DTA guys figured it out. A shorter overall package could make my life easier.

 

[MarioMarietta]

You were setup next to me I believe. I was shooting a Barrett and ppsh 41 I was with John Scott we had the Pkm on the shooters bench. I know frank from being with John and Bob Landis

Small World ;-)

Same loadings (250gr SMK and Retumbo or H5101 powder) works very well in the Sako TRG-42, which just happened to be on TDY that weekend, at I am assuming the same shoot.



Regards
John

 

[JTinIN]

My Sako TRG-42 was at the shoot with out me (i.e. TDY = temporary duty) and should have been setup with a MM23e (HK 23e clone).
Frank is one of the good guys, last shoot with friends my 1919A4 was having issued and he got it going again (one of ear's on the trigger frame broke).

Added a photo of half the TRG-42 from the shoot .... can tell new photo by the rear bag ;-).

Take Care
John

 

[MarioMarietta]

You were setup next to me I believe. I was shooting a Barrett and ppsh 41 I was with John Scott we had the Pkm on the shooters bench. I know frank from being with John and Bob Landis

Small World ;-)

Same loadings (250gr SMK and Retumbo or H5101 powder) works very well in the Sako TRG-42, which just happened to be on TDY that weekend, at I am assuming the same shoot.



Regards
John

 

[Yeah]

If it is just punching paper, or ringing steel, 243AI isn't a bad move. Better would be something not wearing a belt and starting with a 7....7WSM comes immediately to mind.

I wouldn't suffer a 338 Lapua, cost or shoulder impact, unless I needed to hit something that hard at that distance.

 

[JTinIN]

If it is just punching paper, or ringing steel, 243AI isn't a bad move. Better would be something not wearing a belt and starting with a 7....7WSM comes immediately to mind.

I wouldn't suffer a 338 Lapua, cost or shoulder impact, unless I needed to hit something that hard at that distance.

As long as one is shooting with a muzzle brake the recoil of the 338 LM is not bad with either the Sako TRG-42 or the Desert Tactical. The cases cost a little more, however, are thicker than most and appear to last well, besides a few hundred cases are enough for most of us and match components are a lot lower cost than the 50 BMG ;-). Once one moves to no brake (i.e. hunting) and/or factory ammo, agree that another option is the way to go for 9 out 10.

 

[Yamaha]

If you're dead set on it, 338 is hard to beat. If you want more available, try 30-06 with custom loads, so you can make them as dosile as a 308 or nearly as hot as a 300win mag. The problem with the larger rounds is they seem to be balls to the wall every shot, so prepare for a sore shoulder.....lol

 

[JTinIN]

If you're dead set on it, 338 is hard to beat. If you want more available, try 30-06 with custom loads, so you can make them as dosile as a 308 or nearly as hot as a 300win mag. The problem with the larger rounds is they seem to be balls to the wall every shot, so prepare for a sore shoulder.....lol

The 338 LM is almost never taken to a shoot all by it's self. Usually have along a 308 (PSS or 1919A4 depending on what type of shoot) and/or a .223.

 

[HeftyLefty39]

I'm not sure if it was mentioned or not, but you may even consider the .338 Edge...www.defensiveedge.net...check it out...shoots sub to half MOA at every range its shot at...1200yds 3 shots in 5inch group...same projectile as the .338 lapua magnum cartridge, shorter cartridge, cheaper to reload, and depending on who you talk to potentially more accurate depending on your rifle system. I guess it depends on how much you like to reload and spend on your rifle really. Its a great cartridge and its increasingly gaining attention as being one of the best for accuracy/hunting. The custom guns at defensive edge are very much custom and will cost you around $3000 without a scope. They will hit where you want (as long as you do your job) and give you the results on paper or on game! Happy hunting and let us know what you decide.

 

[ROLEXrifleman]

It's simple:

If your knocking out paper or ringing steel: .300WM
If you have to take out something that has a heart beat or past 1200 yards: .338


Cost is 2nd, always get what is needed to fulfill the mission. If budget is a concern, then change the parameters of the end game as your in over your head.

 

[JTinIN]

A good winter exercise is to take the exact bullet, velocity, elevation and temperature and calculate at what distance the round drops to the speed of sound. At this point most all bets are off on accuracy for the bullet dropping through the sound barrier (can also shoot fine is you stay sub sonic but the exterior ballistics are shall we say interesting).

Thus ones finds that the 308 Win needs a low drag bullet to make a 1000 yards with out going trans sonic, at least in the Midwest. The 300 Win mag is not too bad with one of the VLD bullets and the 338 LM works a little better past 1200 meters (the 300 gr 338 bullets start to come into play here also).

A good place to do external ballistics on line for free is calculators at JBM

 

[Dave Doehrman]

i have always been a 300 win mag man, but have been doing some reading on the laupa. would really appreciate as much input as i can get on this matter. thanks for all your help in advance!!!!

I've had my Armalite AR-30 in .338 Lapua for about a year now and have run about 1,000 rounds through it. In my opinion, the .338 Lapua is a superb long distance round (1,000 yards or longer), but for anything out to 1,000 a .308 or 300 Win mag would be fine. The .338 Lapua shoots much flatter at 1,000 with a 250 gr Scenar than my .308 with 168 gr A-Max bullets. I only need 27 MOA at 1,000 with the .338 vs 35 MOA with the .308. That's 80 inches flatter than the .308. I've never had to dial in more than 4 MOA windage (even on the windiest days) with the .338 vs 12 MOA with the .308 2 weeks ago when we had 10-15 mph crosswinds all the way out to 1,000 yards.

If you plan to shoot out to 1,000 yards or longer, I would recommend the .338. I have reloaded my Lapua brass 10 times now and it is still in excellent condition. I'm using CCI LR Magnum primers, Lapua 250gr Scenar bullets and 87gr of IMR 7828 powder for an overall reloading cost of $1.45 per round vs $6.00 per round for factory ammo.

With the AR-30s arrowhead muzzle break recoil is not an issue. The .338 Lapua has less recoil then my Rem 700 in .308. Just remember never, never, never forget your hearing protection when you shoot the .338. I did once and learned my lesson.

 

[JTinIN]

If you load the 300 Win Mag with a low drag bullet, it actually maybe as flat or flatter than the 338 LM this side of 1100 to 1300 yards. Following is from before a trip to Wyoming on a discussion of .243 vs 300WM vs 338LM in either 250 or 300 gr. Note the loadings for the 338LM maybe more conservative by a 100 fps, however, they grouped great in the Desert Tactical and Sako TRG-42. Also the Lapua 250gr that I have been shooting has a little better BC. The rest of the disclaimers are 243 Win and 300 Win Mag is loading data only as I got ride of my PSS years ago (by mistake) and the 243 Win load development for the DT is in the future.

Notes on Long Range Ballistics on Half Inch Cubed

 

[Yeah]

I'm flatter at 1000 than everything in that table with a 162 AMax in a 7WSM. And I can seat it into the lands and still fit into the factory box mag of a sub 7lb rifle. And with a 105 AMax in a 243AI, in a sub 6lb rifle.

Thats a cost I'm able to hold over my head at length.