1st "Longer" range bolt rifle

[Wheezy50]

I know there are a few threads on this topic, I'm reading through them right now, but I wanted to start a new one since they are mostly a year old or more. I'm in step one of research for my first long range bolt gun. By "long range" i'm talking 5-600 yds. I know this isn't going to be a 1K yard rifle, although if I could get a couple hits on a 48" steel from 1K that would be sweet. A custom setup just isn't in my budget. I'm looking at the "budget" entry level rifles from several makers with no clear-cut favorites. The only rifle I've shot in this category is a friends Rem700 in .308.

I'm leaning towards the .308 but haven't ruled out all others. I plan this to be a range gun, coyote gun, and if laws change a deer gun.

Some that i've been looking at so far: Obviously the Remington 700 would be at the top of my list, however this is out of the price range right now. I wouldn't have $ for scope, rings, ammo etc.
Remington 783, Savage Axis II with accutrigger, Ruger American predator, Mossberg ATR night train, Mossberg MVP

Can anyone give me pros and cons? I'll be going to a few shops/stores this weekend to handle some of them for myself.

Another major question I have is how important to accuracy is a heavy barrel vs the lighter contour barrels? I like the look and feel of the heavy barrels but most of these entry level rifles don't offer them.

Scopes are a whole new topic, I'll worry about the rifle first.

 

[throttletony]

don't overlook Thompson/Center Venture as well -- great gun for the money
... and the Tikka T3 -- also a great gun for the money. I would take either of these over a standard, new-production Rem 700 since I don't care much about aftermarket parts (Remington's only appeal, IMHO -- plus I just don't like Remington corporate).

Whichever brand you pick, try to get the tightest/shortest/fastest twist rate in these production guns to be able to stabilize heavy-for-caliber bullets well. (the ones you mentioned are also fine -- I'd pick the Savage or Ruger from those in your list)

and for caliber, consider any of the .308 family
.243, .260, .7mm-08, .308, etc.
The "humble" .243 can be quite an amazing and capable round!!!

If you reload, I would pick the 7mm-08, if you don't reload, get .308 or .243. ALL of these are capable -- the .243 is on the light side for killing deer PAST your max range (500-600 yds from OP), but it will handle business up to the 500 yd. And for a coyote, they're basically a thick-coated greyhound, so all of these are plenty-o-gun for that task. The .243 is even pleasant to shoot for extended periods, where the recoil of a .308 might be off-putting to some.

Finally, consider spending close to the same amount on the optics as you do the gun. This is not necessary, but will make your life much easier if shooting past 400 yds. So if spending $500-600 on rifle, I'd suggest $400-500+ on optics.

[video=youtube;FtlwoNCNnFA]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FtlwoNCNnFA&list=PLJUaiRIEduNXoal2_PkBZi0v DCIcEPxUn&index=3[/video]

 

[throttletony]

I know there are a few threads on this topic, I'm reading through them right now, but I wanted to start a new one since they are mostly a year old or more. I'm in step one of research for my first long range bolt gun. By "long range" i'm talking 5-600 yds. I know this isn't going to be a 1K yard rifle, although if I could get a couple hits on a 48" steel from 1K that would be sweet. A custom setup just isn't in my budget. I'm looking at the "budget" entry level rifles from several makers with no clear-cut favorites. The only rifle I've shot in this category is a friends Rem700 in .308.

I'm leaning towards the .308 but haven't ruled out all others. I plan this to be a range gun, coyote gun, and if laws change a deer gun.

Some that i've been looking at so far: Obviously the Remington 700 would be at the top of my list, however this is out of the price range right now. I wouldn't have $ for scope, rings, ammo etc.
Remington 783, Savage Axis II with accutrigger, Ruger American predator, Mossberg ATR night train, Mossberg MVP

Can anyone give me pros and cons? I'll be going to a few shops/stores this weekend to handle some of them for myself.

Another major question I have is how important to accuracy is a heavy barrel vs the lighter contour barrels? I like the look and feel of the heavy barrels but most of these entry level rifles don't offer them.

Scopes are a whole new topic, I'll worry about the rifle first.

Regarding barrel profiles - the thicker barrels heat up (and cool down) more slowly, and are generally considered "stiffer" (as long as they're not too long) which gives you more repeatability/"accuracy" with less interference from heating. That said, heavy barrels SUCK to carry around all day hunting, but they're a joy at the range! So, it's a matter of picking which is MORE important for you. I have carried heavy-barreled varmint guns and they just aren't balanced for carrying -- they're front heavy, they don't sling well, etc.

Modern machining is sweet and lets you get a relatively lightweight barrel that will shoot quality ammo into a 5-shot 1MOA group if you do your part. (Some of these companies even guarantee a 3-shot 1MOA group with match quality ammo, shooter still has to do his part) BUT... as barrel heats up, you'll notice your group getting bigger. For "walking" hunting the thinner "sporter" barrel profile is a godsend!! Besides, how often do you send 10 rds downrange at the same target/animal. For target shooting or prarie-dog style varminting, yeah, take the heavy barrel

It comes down to your priorities, but the heavy barrels really only shine in extended fire or when you want to get that 1-MOA group down to 3/4-MOA.
Also, don't be fooled into barrel length debates -- anything in the 18"-22" range will serve YOUR purposes (OP) just fine, with 20" barrel being a great compromise of muzzle velocity and carryability!! No need for a 26" heavy barrel, but if you WANT one, that's fine.

 

[Mgderf]

Take a look at the Howa 1500 Sporter too.
HOWA Model 1500 Rifle 308 CAL (NIB) : Bolt Action Rifles at GunBroker.com

 

[sgreen3]

If your wanting to stay with a budget rig take a look at the Savage Hog hunter in 308. Has the accutrigger and a medium contour barrel. Ive shot a few of these rifles and their MOA right out of the box with proper ammo. Plus being based on the Model 11 action there are plenty of aftermarket upgrades and stocks to choose from when you get ready. Not to mention you go with any number of other Savage rifles, but one of these or the Model 11 Trophy Predator Hunter in 243 would get my vote. Good luck with your choice!!!

 

[BugI02]

OP are you set on a brand new gun? From time to time I've seen some good deals on the Remington 721 (predecessor to 700) in 30-06, which has very similar ballistics to .308 Winchester in factory loadings and a similar selection of bullet masses. I have seen some very nicely preserved, reasonably priced examples of the breed which might let you spend more on your optics. I had one of these quite some time ago but alas have no direct experience at extended range shooting with it. I really like 30-06 but if you're willing to spend a bit more +1 on 7mm-08. It arguably has the best ballistics of any medium caliber factory ammunition

 

[dhamby]

My vote would be a Remington 700 for many reasons but since that is out of the price range and of the ones you have listed I would look at the Ruger American Varmint and the MVP.

For caliber the .308 will do the trick you may look into the .260 and 6.5cm. If 500-600 yards will be your max you may even consider .223. The .243 is good but a bit of a barrel burner compared to the other calibers I've mentioned.

 

[Small's]

I recently looked at most of the cheaper bolt guns. In my opinion the Remington 783 was by far the cheapest/worse machining of the group. The TC Venture seemed to be built better than the others. Then the American and savage axis. I havent shot any of them though. I really doubt the average person will every shoot out a 243 barrel. Most couldnt afford to. Im kind of in the same boat but I really dont have any place's to even shoot farther than my AR is capable of. Decisions, decisions

 

[DRob]

Any Savage Model 10 or 12 in .223 will do what you want to do.

 

[sadclownwp]

Savage Model 10P! Buy it and thank me later.

[video=youtube;jGroqvya_is]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jGroqvya_is[/video]

 

[hvacrguy]

Get a Savage in 6.5 Creedmoor you will be very happy. .308 is a great caliber, but the 6.5 is the cats meow.

 

[Stang51d]

I had a 25/06 many years ago. Traded it for my first AR. The AR was a long, heavy barrel, flat top, free floated with a nice scope. Wish I had never made that move. The 25/06 was pretty sweet. I may have to get another one of those some day, that way I would have the trifecta, 25/06, 30/06, and 35 Whelen.

 

[tallerthan28]

a remmington 7mm is a little cheaper but can also reach the distances you are looking for, I have a buddy who uses it in target competions and hit very accurate at 1k.

 

[jwh20]

I know there are a few threads on this topic, I'm reading through them right now, but I wanted to start a new one since they are mostly a year old or more. I'm in step one of research for my first long range bolt gun. By "long range" i'm talking 5-600 yds. I know this isn't going to be a 1K yard rifle, although if I could get a couple hits on a 48" steel from 1K that would be sweet. A custom setup just isn't in my budget. I'm looking at the "budget" entry level rifles from several makers with no clear-cut favorites. The only rifle I've shot in this category is a friends Rem700 in .308.

I'm leaning towards the .308 but haven't ruled out all others. I plan this to be a range gun, coyote gun, and if laws change a deer gun.

Some that i've been looking at so far: Obviously the Remington 700 would be at the top of my list, however this is out of the price range right now. I wouldn't have $ for scope, rings, ammo etc.
Remington 783, Savage Axis II with accutrigger, Ruger American predator, Mossberg ATR night train, Mossberg MVP

Can anyone give me pros and cons? I'll be going to a few shops/stores this weekend to handle some of them for myself.

Another major question I have is how important to accuracy is a heavy barrel vs the lighter contour barrels? I like the look and feel of the heavy barrels but most of these entry level rifles don't offer them.

Scopes are a whole new topic, I'll worry about the rifle first.

First of all, the .308 Winchester is a good all around cartridge and it's widely available and low in cost. Not as low as 5.56 NATO but a lot less expensive than more specialized rounds. If you're into reloading, the .308 is a very versatile round with many powders, bullets, and combinations open to you.

Secondly, the Mossberg ATR Night Train is an excellent rifle. My only complaint is the scope, a Barska, being a low-end model but the package works great and I've had great results from 150 - 200 yds. The rifle is well made and functions very well and I really love the trigger. I am sure that I'll eventually upgrade the scope but it's not been a priority because the Barska is working well. It may eventually change my mind.

On the topic of heavy barrel. The difference occurs when you get the barrel hot. A heavy barrel heats up more slowly (and cools down more slowly) and so it more stable. But I'm not sure that most of us shoot so many rounds in a short period where this is going to be a major factor, at least not with a bolt action.

 

[Wheezy50]

I've been generally looking .308 for this rifle b/c I don't reload and figured this would be readily available, cheapest, lots of choices etc. I know this caliber has been around for years and is proven to well past my intended range. I would love to try a target at 1k yds after I get proficient at 3-4-500 but im not trying to build a 1k yd rifle. So, it would be nice if the rifle is capable of this, even if the shooter is not.

I'm curious about some of the "newer" or "oddball" calibers like .260 and 6.5 Creedmoor. I don't know if they are newer with lots of current hype, or if there are legitimate reasons to consider them over .308. I'm not interested in getting something to be "different" but if one these others is better I'm considering all of them. I'm sure ammo is more expensive and harder to come by but about is there enough advantages for me to go that route? I hear reviews talk about these being hard on barrels and shortens the barrel lifespan. I have a hard time believing I would ever go through enough rounds for this to be a problem for me.

 

[sgreen3]

Honestly for your first bolt gun a 308 is a very nice choice. The big benefit like you mentioned is ammo availability which there is plenty for the 308. You have anything from cheaper hunting ammo to high end match grade stuff as well as the steel case match loads from Hornady now (which are highly accurate, I do reload but still use them in my LR308). As far as the other calibers listed they are awesome calibers flat shooting high BC calibers that shine very well at long range. But as you said your looking for something out to 500 or so yrds. Those the 260 an 6.5 is a bit overkill for that not to mention the ammo side of it. Yea some manufactures make ammo for the calibers but generally its not easily found unless bought offline from what I've seen. An no the average guy probably would not wear a barrel out. But its one other point to take under consideration. One thing I would suggest is take a look at 243win although there isn't much in the way of high end match ammo unless you buy offline, the round is flat shooting with capability out to 1k with the right load with less felt recoil.

 

[Tp222]

With as popular as the Rem 700 sps .308 is you should be able to find a gently used one at a good price. There is alot of aftermarket parts available and availability is a great thing when you need something.

 

[CampingJosh]

If you don't mind continuing to use what you are currently using for deer hunting, I would seriously recommend that you look at .223/5.56 instead of .308. It'll be great for coyotes, shoot accurately past 600 yards, and it's a heck of a lot cheaper to feed than a .308 is.

If you want to get good at this, you're going to spend more on ammo than the gun; I know I already have, and I'm not good yet.

With that said, I would recommend a Remington 700 ADL. They can be bought used for ~$400 without a scope, and a SWFA SS fixed power will work nicely for only $300 more. Whenever you are ready to move up in scope, you will lose very little on that one--or more likely, decide it's too nice to get rid of and just move it to a different gun. I would suggest the 6x42 for your situation.

No matter what caliber you go with, pick a used 700 or Savage 10 or 110 way ahead of the cheaper offerings like the Axis, American, MVP, or 783. You will appreciate the aftermarket support.

 

[Hmod]

I owned a Remington 700 SPS Tactical in .308. 20 inch heavy tapered contour barrel with a 1:10 twist. I was looking to build a budget long range rifle myself looking at the same ones also listed. The rifle was not cumbersome at all and at the range it was a dream to shoot. I was able to shoot 5 shot groups of MATCH 175gr Sierra HPBT at sub MOA accuracy. 100yd groups covered by a dime, 200yd covered by a nickel, and still close to a nickel at 300yd with a 400yd group covered by a quarter. Fired out to a mile with a 10MOA scope base with near perfect elevation using a mil-dot retical Weaver tactical that a friend let me use the range observer did not catch a small breeze toward the end of the range I had not yet accounted for. My round hit about 10 feet to the right which at a mile using a .308 is still impressive in any standard. As far as hunting goes the rifle was not hard to carry while moving up and over mountains. A large number of elk came running over a ridge across a long ravine from us. He ranged it out at 800yd and called out my bull. With 2.5 seconds of lead I got a head shot. I'm not a trophy hunter. I wanted to drop it quick and not loose any meat. That was a capable rifle and for the whole package rifle, weaver buck commander crap scope, base and rings, and sling I was still south of 1000 bucks.

 

[Jdubbs]

+1 on the savage hog hunter in 308. I have one and love it. Shoots accurate, great trigger, and not bad to carry. I like shorter bull barrels myself but everyone has a preference. Either way best thing to do is settle on a few and find a place that has them all so you can get a good side by side comparison. To me i think thats the best way to buy. And if your new to 308 make sure you double check your ammo when buying. I had a buddy that bought a case of ammo for his, then found out it was 308 marlin express. Also check to see how your gun likes 7.62x51 before stock piling. My 308 rifles doesnt like 7.62x51 ammo, well at least what ive tried.