20 vs 12...

[Indy38]

**Update** - I'm an ass and posted this Q in the wrong section. My apologies. If a moderator can move it, I would really appreciate it. I had too many threads open as I was really excited to find this site! Again, my apologies.

Got a question and looking for some opinions. The Mrs. & I just bought our first home and we are right on the cuff of what I would consider a dodgy area. We made the decision to get a shotgun just to leave by the bed for some home defense/peace of mind. We are both noobs. I just bought my first gun this year, a ultra light .38 snub nose, and my wife who is a little thing can't handle it real well at the range.

That being said, I'm looking to get some input on 12 vs 20 gauge. More than anything I want her to be comfortable (& effective) in using it if she has to when I'm out of town. Like I said, she is tiny, under 5 foot and around 90 lbs, so I'm afraid a 12 gauge would knock her down.

Any thoughts on what would be best in terms of a shotgun/ammo?

Thanks in advance.
Hank

 

[RBrianHarless]

Hank, I would go with the 12 gauge. It is easier to get ammo, cheaper and you can use birdshot for self defense. Less recoil and no worries of over penetration. You may even want to look into a Youth model that will fit her better with a small frame. She should be able to hip fire or shoulder fire the shotgun. Just takes practice to learn to manage recoil and adjust for anticipating recoil. Ensure that the butt of the shotgun has a good recoil pad. Just my two bits.

 

[Indy38]

Appreciate it, RB. Any thoughts on models, brands? We looked at a Remington 870 youth (not sure if thats the actual name) but it was pretty big. Again, we are new to this.

I also saw a stagecoach gun, side by side that really caught my eye. Pretty sure it was a 12 gauge but only held two rounds.

 

[SSGSAD]

Appreciate it, RB. Any thoughts on models, brands? We looked at a Remington 870 youth (not sure if thats the actual name) but it was pretty big. Again, we are new to this.

I also saw a stagecoach gun, side by side that really caught my eye. Pretty sure it was a 12 gauge but only held two rounds.

Mossberg, also makes a "youth" model, some months back, BGF, had them in stock... might try TSG, on Shelby street...

 

[Titanium_Frost]

Hank, you probably want to start out in the right part of the forum... This is the HANDGUN section and there is also a LONG GUN section which includes shotguns and rifles. I hope you read the instructions on your new gun and the safety rules a little closer

 

[Indy38]

Frost, my apologies. I had a couple threads open reading and must have starting this in the wrong window.

Is there a way I can movie the thread?

 

[forthehousew]

Let her try a 20ga youth model. The Winchester youth 20ga is lighter and has a forearm that comes back farther for smaller stature people. Probably can find a used one. with the improvements in ammo the 20ga is better than it used to be and kicks less than the 12ga so you will practice more, be confident and it will be effective.

 

[Titanium_Frost]

Hank, I would go with the 12 gauge. It is easier to get ammo, cheaper and you can use BUCKSHOT for self defense. Manageable recoil and no worries of not stopping the threat with inferior birdshot. You may even want to look into a Youth model that will fit her better with a small frame. She should be Trained to aim and shoulder fire the shotgun. Just takes practice to learn to manage recoil using a proper stance so you don't pull your shot while anticipating recoil. Ensure that the butt of the shotgun has a good recoil pad. Just my two bits.

There, fixed it for you.

Birdshot is for BIRDS! Use buckshot!

Even shotguns need aimed! Get reliable training!

 

[Titanium_Frost]

Frost, my apologies. I had a couple threads open reading and must have starting this in the wrong window.

Is there a way I can movie the thread?

No need to apologize it happens all the time I just felt like pullin your leg a little. A moderator can move it.

 

[Hookeye]

The Rem 870 Youth had the forend too far fwd for my kids.
The new Compact model has a longer forearm for more rearward grasp.

 

[Titanium_Frost]

That being said, I'm looking to get some input on 12 vs 20 gauge. More than anything I want her to be comfortable (& effective) in using it if she has to when I'm out of town. Like I said, she is tiny, under 5 foot and around 90 lbs, so I'm afraid a 12 gauge would knock her down.

Any thoughts on what would be best in terms of a shotgun/ammo?

Thanks in advance.
Hank

My wife is about the same size and she prefers an AR15 for home defense. Very little recoil.

 

[kludge]

Welcome to the forum, and a great first question. A lightweight snub is a hard gun to master, but once you do, just about everything else is cake.

I won one for my wife, and she doesn't like shooting it.

As for 12 v 20, it's a great question.

First, for the 12... I HIGHLY recommend Federal Tactical 00 Buck low-recoil shells.

(btw "00" is pronounced "double aught")

LE - Tactical Buckshot

Ignore that's it's for "law enforcement only"; you can find it.

If not, this is pretty close to the same thing...

Federal Premium - Buckshot Details

Regarding the 20... You get about 90% of the effectiveness for about 2/3 the recoil energy (when compared to the normal stuff, not the low-recoil stuff mentioned).

It's hard to find 00 buck for the 20 gauge, it doesn't really stack up to well inside the smaller shell. #3 buck is common. #4 and #2 are also out there.

I can't recommend birdshot for self defense. The wound will likely be superficial and not stop a determined/drugged-up bad guy. And as a pre-emptive strike for the guys who will come along shortly to ask me to volunteer to be shot with birdshot... I'll just say this: the probability that you will be the victim of a violent home invasion is fairly low, but if it does, you may only get one chance to stop it. Why would you choose a shotgun shell that would likely fail it's primary mission (stopping the violent attack)?

Whichever you decide on, depending on her size a youth model might fit. I have a niece who is about the size of your wife and trust me, it's impossible for her to shoulder a standard length shotgun. If both of you will use it there are adjustable/collapsable stock for the most popular shotguns.

If you get a youth model PLEASE don't let her (or you) wrap her thumb around the grip while shooting. The recoil will put her thumb right into her nose. A collapsable stock will have a pistol grip and eliminate this issue. I would recommend somthing like this, which will also reduce felt recoil:

SpecOps Adjustable Shotgun Stock - BLACKHAWK!

Also... getting to my point... either a 12 or 20 GA pump defensive style shotgun is just plain too heavy for my niece to shoulder and shoot well, so take that into consideration and try before you buy.

A youth model single-shot 20 gauge is about the right size and weight for my niece... but it's a single shot.

And finally... my point... You might consider what is my personal favorite for home defense for the small of stature... a Cal .30 M1 Carbine. Light, easy to use, the stock is not very long, recoil is quite mild, yet it's more powerful than a .357 magnum. Perhaps the only downside is the price... about twice what you'd pay for a good pump shotgun.

 

[jesse485]

I'd get a 20ga, or a pistol caliber carbine. My Kel Tec sub 2000 is very easy to shoot and lightweight. 12 GA is a fine gun, but had lots of recoil and heft.

 

[Hoosier8]

There, fixed it for you.

Birdshot is for BIRDS! Use buckshot!

Even shotguns need aimed! Get reliable training!

Yep. I would suggest the reduced recoil 12 gauge buckshot like this:

Federal Power-Shok Low Recoil Ammo 12 Ga 2-3/4 Buffered 00 Buckshot 9 Pellets Box of 5

That would be 9 pellets of approx .30 caliber balls.

 

[goinggreyfast]

While I know I will probably get flamed for saying this, here goes.

My wife is also a small woman so I got her a Mossy 500 410 Ga (that's right, I said a 410) and it is leaning up against her side of the bed. I do not want her in the heat of the moment to have to worry about recoil and the gun potentially getting away from her.

You can get Winchester Elites shells (designed for use with a Taurus Judge, but will work just fine in a long gun) I also know that my wife is a pretty darn good shot with that 410 and she is comfortable with it. From across the room, Winchester Elites will provide more than enough stuff to do the job.

We also have a Mossy 500 20 Ga hanging just inside the closet. It has a pistol grip and is set up for home defense should we need something with a little more punch.

Using a 12 gage is fine I guess, but I'm just not a fan. We are not hunters, so we don't go through that much ammo making ammo cost not that much of an issue.

 

[forkliftdave]

12 ga. It might knock her down. Plus it will knock the intruder down.

 

[snorko]

Good article by Massad Ayoob on this question

Consider the 20-gauge shotgun by Massad Ayoob Issue #120

 

[kludge]

I love Mas' articles in the Backwoods Home Mag.

 

[churchmouse]

Welcome to the forum, and a great first question. A lightweight snub is a hard gun to master, but once you do, just about everything else is cake.

I won one for my wife, and she doesn't like shooting it.

As for 12 v 20, it's a great question.

First, for the 12... I HIGHLY recommend Federal Tactical 00 Buck low-recoil shells.

(btw "00" is pronounced "double aught")

LE - Tactical Buckshot

Ignore that's it's for "law enforcement only"; you can find it.

If not, this is pretty close to the same thing...

Federal Premium - Buckshot Details

Regarding the 20... You get about 90% of the effectiveness for about 2/3 the recoil energy (when compared to the normal stuff, not the low-recoil stuff mentioned).

It's hard to find 00 buck for the 20 gauge, it doesn't really stack up to well inside the smaller shell. #3 buck is common. #4 and #2 are also out there.

I can't recommend birdshot for self defense. The wound will likely be superficial and not stop a determined/drugged-up bad guy. And as a pre-emptive strike for the guys who will come along shortly to ask me to volunteer to be shot with birdshot... I'll just say this: the probability that you will be the victim of a violent home invasion is fairly low, but if it does, you may only get one chance to stop it. Why would you choose a shotgun shell that would likely fail it's primary mission (stopping the violent attack)?

Whichever you decide on, depending on her size a youth model might fit. I have a niece who is about the size of your wife and trust me, it's impossible for her to shoulder a standard length shotgun. If both of you will use it there are adjustable/collapsable stock for the most popular shotguns.

If you get a youth model PLEASE don't let her (or you) wrap her thumb around the grip while shooting. The recoil will put her thumb right into her nose. A collapsable stock will have a pistol grip and eliminate this issue. I would recommend somthing like this, which will also reduce felt recoil:

SpecOps Adjustable Shotgun Stock - BLACKHAWK!

Also... getting to my point... either a 12 or 20 GA pump defensive style shotgun is just plain too heavy for my niece to shoulder and shoot well, so take that into consideration and try before you buy.

A youth model single-shot 20 gauge is about the right size and weight for my niece... but it's a single shot.

And finally... my point... You might consider what is my personal favorite for home defense for the small of stature... a Cal .30 M1 Carbine. Light, easy to use, the stock is not very long, recoil is quite mild, yet it's more powerful than a .357 magnum. Perhaps the only downside is the price... about twice what you'd pay for a good pump shotgun.

I love M-1 Carbines. Had a nice one, 1st wife has it now...oh well, go figure.
A good gun but it is a very powerful piece for home defense. A missed 1st shot could end up in the stove next door. Not so with any gauge shotty.
An auto loading 12 with the right shells can be a good choice here. Proper stock with pistol grip gives more control and less felt recoil. The whole thing revolves around range time. Go with her and shoot the piece you choose so she will be aware of everything that will happen. Run several boxes of your preferred shells through it with her. Not just once or twice but as often as you can afford it. Then it is second nature. She will spend fewer seconds shouldering and getting "Ready" to fire. It will be automatic and she can spend those precious seconds identifying and sighting her target or assailant. It will be an adrenaline filled moment in slow motion and every second could count.
Safety, safety safety, then marksmanship. Practice, practice, practice. JMHO.

 

[jason765]

You might want to try to make arrangements to have people meet you at a range to let her try different calibers and guns, Even a 20ga can put a thump on a small frame and the main thing is that you dont want her to be scared of the gun. She may be more comfortable with a KelTec Sub2K or HiPoint carbine which are available in 9mm .40 and .45 ACP. My wife has a similar frame and we have found 9mm a very suitable round for her, youth model shotguns fit her well too as she cannot properly shoulder a full length. And Welcome to INGO, you will be back!!