243 Winchester - Why not a replacement for 223?

[netsecurity]

I've been watching 'Long Range 101' by Tiborasaurus on youtube. Good stuff. Anyways, he pops a soda can at 1500y with a 243. His data says a 243 doesn't go subsonic, and is therefore accurate, out to 1500y. Also, it packs more punch at 1000y than a 30-06! So that really has me wondering why it hasn't been considered as an infantry standard? I would think the cartridge is a lot smaller and lighter to carry than 6.5+mm "intermediate" cartridges.

So who has a 243Win, and what is it about them that is unattractive? Heavy recoil? They aren't long action are they? What gives? It would seem that doubling the range of all troops would be absolutely fantastic.

 

[Tombs]

243 winchester is a 308 necked down to 6mm.

There's been some 223 to 6mm wildcats before(6x45mm or 6mm TCU). I think the issue mostly boils down the fact that there's 77gr+ loads for 5.56. So, why bother?

He doesn't talk much about the heavy weight 5.56 loadings. I think the main reason he's doing that 243 is to show people that you don't need some ridiculous super magnum to put power down at 1000+ yards.

 

[RandallX]

I've been told by many that i am foolish to think a .243 is good past 500yds. thank you for the post!! seriously..thank you. and no they are not long action. recoil is not bad at all IMO. off the top of my head i would say NATO might have their hands in why not, the fact that switching to a new caliber would cost some serious DoD money. they tend to use multi system calibers. i.e. M4, M249. M240B, M24, M110. M2, M107. purely guesses as i have no real info to back it.

 

[6mm Shoot]

The military used and is still using the parent round of the 243. That is the 308. It was used to replace the 30-6.

A lot of people think that the 308 should have never been dropped from the main battle rifle. Some think that the 6.5 Grendel would be the way to go. All you would have to do to the battle rifle we use now is change the barrel and bolt. It would give the shooter a heaver and bigger bullet. Still it wouldn't have the recoil that the 308 has or the 243 for that matter. The 260 Remington is a 6.5 and it uses the 308 case. It is a great round and a lot of people use it to shoot out to 1000 yards. Those that shoot the 260 Remington claim it is much better than the 308 and is just as deadly.

The military has to look at cost and training to change rifles. Going to the Grendel wold be the cheapest. Going with a 243 or 260 Remington wold call for a new rifle. Such as the AR 10. That would be costly. Also you have to consider that we have to use what NATO uses. How do you get them to go along with a change when every country in the world is having money problems. It would be a hard sale. I think it was about four years ago that the military was considering a change and nothing has happened so far. My thought has been that the Grendel would be a good change. Then I have always thought the 5.56 was under powered for a battle rifle.

 

[cubbetm]

I've had a couple 243s and I always end up selling them because i have no place for it. I just use my 223 for out to 600 and a 6.5 or 7mm for further.

 

[giovani]

Because your standard infantry rarely engages targets beyond 300 yds and if they need to they have equipment chambered in far superior calibers than 243, 6.5 grendel , etc. already.

 

[sloughfoot]

It is a barrel burner. You are lucky to get 1500 rounds before the throat is gone. It can go away in the middle of a 20 shot string. Torched away. Tomato stake.

David Tubb won the 1000 yard championships with a .243 one year. He never brought it back to the firing line. He has used other 6mm cartridges since.

I love my .243 but I use mine for hunting.

 

[shawnba67]

I second the barrel life problem.

 

[lubemupski]

I honestly would never have even considered barrel life. How would a 243 compare with a 223 or even a 22-250?

 

[sloughfoot]

The .243 and 22-250 are both barrel burners. That large case capacity down into that little bore is the culprit.

The .223 can easily go 5,000 rounds and much more depending on your accuracy standard and need. I change out the barrel of my .223 match rifles at 5,000 or at the beginning of a high power season. I have never had one not make it from March to November including the Nationals in August.

 

[Yeah]

So who has a 243Win, and what is it about them that is unattractive?

Nothing

Heavy recoil?

No

They aren't long action are they?

Though they certainly can and have been built on LAs, and bean counter driven manufacturers often regularly avail themselves of that opportunity, there are no advantages. 243 Win is one of the few chamberings for which a group of spectacular bullets are available that can be loaded to the lands and still cycle without issue in most SA actions.

What gives?

What gives is most rifle owners shoot little, if at all. They kill things even less. Thus wives tales and appeals to tradition rule the day.

 

[Yeah]

You are lucky to get 1500 rounds before the throat is gone.

What are the particulars of the 243 Win chambered barrels you've burned out in 1500 rounds or fewer?

David Tubb won the 1000 yard championships with a .243 one year. He never brought it back to the firing line.

What are your findings with these 6mm alternatives? You've shot the 6XC no doubt. What was your barrel life versus 243 Win or 243 AI?

 

[lubemupski]

What kind of cost would one be looking at, say for a Remington 700 .223? Is has to be cheaper than just getting a whole new rifle right?

 

[Yeah]

Remington produces a 700 chambered in .223 Rem, thus getting one from them would constitute a 'whole new rifle'.

 

[Iroquois]

While the .243 is a flat shooter,I have to wonder what would happen if it were loaded with a propper FMJ load. It's effective on medium game because of hollowpoint bullets. Would it be better than the 7.62 in combat. It would certainly limit individual ammo load counts to field soldiers ,compared to the 5.56...Also, how would it run in SAWs? Would the narrow bullet feed in a belt fed gun? I think it is best used as a sporting round. JMHO.

 

[sloughfoot]

What are the particulars of the 243 Win chambered barrels you've burned out in 1500 rounds or fewer?



What are your findings with these 6mm alternatives? You've shot the 6XC no doubt. What was your barrel life versus 243 Win or 243 AI?

I love my .243 but I use mine for hunting.

[/QUOTE]

Krieger, Hart, Douglas. 1X8 twist. What else do you want to know? Short barrel life for the .243 is common knowledge in the High Power community. Come to the range and see for yourself. Lots of guys tell the story. We all watched David Tubb struggle with that rifle and still win gold in 1999. His research is the reason why we have the 6XC. The 6mm Creedmore too owes a lot to David. I'll bet I can find the old Precision Shooting articles that detail his search for a better 6mm for high round count applications at long range.

The first match of the year is the first weekend in March 2014 at Oak Ridge Tennessee. You are invited to take the right seat. I leave friday afternoon and come back late Sunday night.

I don't shoot the 6XC. I have several friends that do. For long range I shoot .308 with 155's out of a 30 inch Krieger Palma contour barrel. I am always preparing for the Palma team....

My long range gun........

IMG]http://i39.tinypic.com/mmpk5t.jpg[/IMG]

Again, I really do like the .243. I own a 700 topped with a 3X9 Leopold that is ideal for lots of things. I just would not count on one for long range competition to put me in the winners circle.

 

[Yeah]

I've found it effective on medium game and well past that.

 

[avboiler11]

See also:

6mm SAW (6x45)
280 British

 

[avboiler11]

How fast are the strings in highpower?

The hotrod 6s are in vogue in the practical comp realm these days...though many seem to be using H1000 which apparently provides a little better barrel life with 105 Hybrids at a 3100-3150fps speed limit.

 

[Yeah]

Krieger, Hart, Douglas. 1X8 twist. What else do you want to know?

I likely have a Kreiger or two in 0.243" somewhere, though I would have to look up a round estimate. Maybe a Hart. I have a Pac-Nor 3 groove with 2500ish rounds of 243AI under its belt and I'd not hesitate to point it at any animal I could see. My Rock rebarreled Kimber Montana, also in 243AI, has more than that on it and I'm similarly confident. This is with chasing throats to keep the bullet in the lands. 0.243" bullets on 308 based cases in SA actions/mag boxes afford much latitude in that regard.

In any case I find variation in barrel life across a variety of chamberings that are legendarily barrel burners, and it is well correlated with throat geometry. But I only shoot moly'd bullets loaded to the lands. Other mileage may vary, I can't know.

Short barrel life for the .243 is common knowledge in the High Power community. Come to the range and see for yourself.

I'm about as likely to set foot on a square range as is lightning.

His research is the reason why we have the 6XC.

I've shot the 6XC a bit as well and found myself unable to find a reason to choose it over 243AI.

You are invited to take the right seat.

I am more of a left seater but wouldn't turn down an opportunity to watch. I can't tell what aircraft that is from your avatar pic, but I've not met many I wouldn't ride in.