.30-30 vs. .30 carbine

[jedi]

There you go again, there are plenty of dead German's, North Korean's and Japanese laying in graves in Europe and Asia that if they could talk, would disagree with you.

True but if you look now there are much better suit weapon platforms and ammo for that job which are cheaper than going the .30 carbine route.

It is a great gun to use for plinking and getting a shooter use to a 'heavier' recoil before moving them up to a .223/7.62 or .308 coming from a .22 platform.

 

[IndyBeerman]

True but if you look now there are much better suit weapon platforms and ammo for that job which are cheaper than going the .30 carbine route.

I agree there are now better platforms, the advancement of technology is a beautiful thing. But in the M1 Carbines heyday, it was the perfect weapon to be used by behind the line troops, and to an extent, front line troops and officers.

It is a great gun to use for plinking and getting a shooter use to a 'heavier' recoil before moving them up to a .223/7.62 or .308 coming from a .22 platform.

It's still a viable firearm that can be used for more than plinking, and still has an effective range out to 200+yards.

Any .30 round traveling @ 2000 fps is something I would not want to get hit with.

 

[jedi]

heck i dont even want to be on the recieved end of a .22lr rifle.

 

[IndyBeerman]

I may have to break out the Underwood M1 .30 cal Carbine and do my own little show and tell to disprove a thing or two.

 

[Broom_jm]

I agree there are now better platforms, the advancement of technology is a beautiful thing. But in the M1 Carbines heyday, it was the perfect weapon to be used by behind the line troops, and to an extent, front line troops and officers.




It's still a viable firearm that can be used for more than plinking, and still has an effective range out to 200+yards.

Any .30 round traveling @ 2000 fps is something I would not want to get hit with.

Nostalgia is a beautiful thing, ain't it? The problem is, reality is so often quite different.

The 30 Carbine does have a muzzle velocity of around 2,000fps, but that blunt-nosed little bullet doesn't hang onto it very long. At 100 yards, it's down around 1,500fps and at 200 yards, it's crawling along at less than 1,200. At that range, where you suggest it is still effective, the 30 Carbine has roughly 350 ft/lb of energy remaining.

Ask yourself two very direct questions: Why did the US military abandon the round after Korea and why are there NO other rounds like it?

If the 30 Carbine was such a great round it would still be a popular offering today, much like the 45/70, 30/30, 30-'06 and many others. The fact of the matter is that even the most anemic of guns can be used to good effect, if kept to limited ranges...and the 30 Carbine is probably the least powerful round ever used in modern warfare.

I mean, seriously...compare it to any other rifle round that saw service since the advent of smokeless powder. It was such an effective replacement for a side-arm...that the army now issues pistols again. That should tell you everything you need to know.

Enjoy it for what it is, but don't try to make it out to be some great implement of battle. Ford sold a lot of Pintos...but it was never a great car, either!

 

[cedartop]

Nostalgia is a beautiful thing, ain't it? The problem is, reality is so often quite different.

The 30 Carbine does have a muzzle velocity of around 2,000fps, but that blunt-nosed little bullet doesn't hang onto it very long. At 100 yards, it's down around 1,500fps and at 200 yards, it's crawling along at less than 1,200. At that range, where you suggest it is still effective, the 30 Carbine has roughly 350 ft/lb of energy remaining.

.

Hmm, so at 200 yards it is down to the energy of what most of us carry as a defensive gun daily. (.45, .40m 9mm, etc.) Less than optimum indeed, but still workable. Would I pick the .30 carbine today as my battle rifle? Of course not, but if ti was all I had I would not feel uncomfortable with it.

My grandfather fought in the pacific theater in WWII. He saw a lot of action. It was rare that I could get him to talk about the battles but I always tried. When talking about the guns they used, he said the guys were always trying to get the Thompsons and the .30 carbines because the garands were such a pain in the jungle enviroment. He said the enlisted guys never got to hang onto them long because the officers always took them from them. That doesn't sound like something that is worthless.

 

[Broom_jm]

Both of my grandfathers fought in WWII, as well, one of whom was a medic and carried a 30 Carbine. He always had one around the house and one of the two in my safe was his before he passed on. I will always treasure that rifle for the heritage it represents.

None of that makes it any more effective...it is what it is.