300 Blackout SUBSONIC for deer? What are your thoughts?

[Woobie]

They slow bullet velocity for one. It's not like we are at the range. One shot maybe two.

To me it's like the recoil, I rarely feel it or even remember it same with the noise while hunting but at the range, I put hearing protection on as soon as I get out of my car.

Too each their own, I was just asking why you guys used them for deer hunting. I get it for yotes.

The first line is actually incorrect, though a popular myth.

I usually don't remember the noise, either, so it doesn't bother me. Buuuut, the psychological condition of auditory exclusion does not nullify the physiological damage to the ears.

And yeah, to each their own. I think it's a good idea, but we've gotten this far without them, so not a necessity.

 

[MRP2003]

Thanks. I learned something. Never knew that silencers did not reduce velocity and actually can increase accuracy.

If you hear a shooter say that, you can bet your beer money that they haven't shot a modern suppressor. Modern suppressors allow the use of full-power ammunition, do not reduce the muzzle velocity, do not contact the bullet during flight, and often aid accuracy

Checked the web and found several articles verifying this.
Thanks

 

[42769vette]

Thanks. I learned something. Never knew that silencers did not reduce velocity and actually can increase accuracy.

If you hear a shooter say that, you can bet your beer money that they haven't shot a modern suppressor. Modern suppressors allow the use of full-power ammunition, do not reduce the muzzle velocity, do not contact the bullet during flight, and often aid accuracy

Checked the web and found several articles verifying this.
Thanks

Misconceptions about suppressor's are everywhere. Glad we got this one ironed out sir.

 

[oldpink]

Thanks. I learned something. Never knew that silencers did not reduce velocity and actually can increase accuracy.

If you hear a shooter say that, you can bet your beer money that they haven't shot a modern suppressor. Modern suppressors allow the use of full-power ammunition, do not reduce the muzzle velocity, do not contact the bullet during flight, and often aid accuracy

Checked the web and found several articles verifying this.
Thanks

You are correct on all counts.
In fact, at least a few years ago, the high powered rifle benchrest world record was set with a rifle equipped with a suppressor.
I'm not well versed on the subject to know if this is true, but I recall reading about that time that suppressors have become just about standard equipment for benchrest shooters largely because they help stabilize the gases at the muzzle to prevent the bullet getting canted as it exits at that point.
I suppose a perfectly placed shot with subsonic .300 AAC using a quick expanding bullet would be adequate for deer, but I still have to ask why handicap yourself with much lower power ammo than you can fire out of the same cartridge?
Also, while the muzzle energy with the subsonic loads is comparable to mild .45 Colt loads, it's worth mentioning that the frontal area of the .45 Colt is considerably greater, vitally important with the two rounds that due to their relatively low velocity may have limited expansion if they have any at all.
It just seems much more ethical to use a more capable load to humanely bring down a majestic wild animal.
With identically placed shots, subsonic or full power AAC will most definitely kill a deer, but it's a lead pipe cinch that the full power loads will do it more dependably and rapidly.

 

[Mgderf]

I've read time and again that subsonic .300blk has a very difficult time expanding.
Most reports are zero expansion and unacceptable terminal performance.

If you're going to go subsonic with the blackout round, I suggest you go with soft point bullets rather than hollow-points.

This is just my opinion.

 

[Rookie]

Thanks. I learned something. Never knew that silencers did not reduce velocity and actually can increase accuracy.

If you hear a shooter say that, you can bet your beer money that they haven't shot a modern suppressor. Modern suppressors allow the use of full-power ammunition, do not reduce the muzzle velocity, do not contact the bullet during flight, and often aid accuracy

Checked the web and found several articles verifying this.
Thanks

Some of the long distance competitors are starting to use suppressors in competition.

http://precisionrifleblog.com/2015/12/12/rifle-suppressor/

 

[42769vette]

I've read time and again that subsonic .300blk has a very difficult time expanding.
Most reports are zero expansion and unacceptable terminal performance.

If you're going to go subsonic with the blackout round, I suggest you go with soft point bullets rather than hollow-points.

This is just my opinion.

Load 225 gr bullets through a 10 twist barrel. Accuracy sucks, but a 30 caliber, 1 inch long bullet going through the lungs sideways at 716 MPH will do some damage.

(FYI, Im kidding)

 

[two70]

To me it's like the recoil, I rarely feel it or even remember it same with the noise while hunting but at the range, I put hearing protection on as soon as I get out of my car.

You may not notice or feel it at the time but shooting without hearing protection is damaging your hearing and it is cumulative. You will notice it eventually..... when it is too late to do much about it.


As for a subsonic 300 blackout being effective for deer, any projectile that penetrates a vital area will lead to quick death. A heavy for caliber bullet in .308 will provide more than sufficient penetration at that velocity within reasonable range. You will likely not get much bullet expansion, the entrance and exit wounds will likely be much closer to bullet diameter, and you will likely have to track the deer. People effectively kill deer with air rifles of larger diameter and similar bullet weight. Aiming for CNS hit is exactly what you should not do, the margin of error is much smaller and the chance of wounding is much greater. Its not necessary and counter productive if your goal is to reduce the chance of wounding.

 

[oldpink]

You may not notice or feel it at the time but shooting without hearing protection is damaging your hearing and it is cumulative. You will notice it eventually..... when it is too late to do much about it.


As for a subsonic 300 blackout being effective for deer, any projectile that penetrates a vital area will lead to quick death. A heavy for caliber bullet in .308 will provide more than sufficient penetration at that velocity within reasonable range. You will likely not get much bullet expansion, the entrance and exit wounds will likely be much closer to bullet diameter, and you will likely have to track the deer. People effectively kill deer with air rifles of larger diameter and similar bullet weight. Aiming for CNS hit is exactly what you should not do, the margin of error is much smaller and the chance of wounding is much greater. Its not necessary and counter productive if your goal is to reduce the chance of wounding.

+1

 

[avboiler11]

Aiming for CNS hit is exactly what you should not do, the margin of error is much smaller and the chance of wounding is much greater. Its not necessary and counter productive if your goal is to reduce the chance of wounding.

I disagree.

If you are proficient with your weapon and know your load's ballistics, the risk of wounding and not recovering an animal is no greater than with a pulled heart/lung shot that ends up in the gut or rump.

Advocating a subsonic vitals shot with a bullet that won't expand or fragment (or tumble, or cut numerous bleeding channels the way a broadhead does) is decidedly a WORSE option, in my humble opinion, than a head/neck shot...you're basically using a FMJ at that point and if you don't flip their switch I dunno exactly how "quick" death is going to be.

 

[SteveM4A1]

All this talk of non-expanding subsonic loads...

6 hogs down! Lehigh max expansion results. - Page 2 - 300BlkTalk

Recovered Lehigh Defense 194 gr Max Expansion Subsonic; WOW! - 300BlkTalk

Just go with the 194gr ME if you want to hunt subsonic. Makes more sense to me to use a super with the suppressor while deer hunting, but YMMV.

 

[two70]

I disagree.

If you are proficient with your weapon and know your load's ballistics, the risk of wounding and not recovering an animal is no greater than with a pulled heart/lung shot that ends up in the gut or rump.

Advocating a subsonic vitals shot with a bullet that won't expand or fragment (or tumble, or cut numerous bleeding channels the way a broadhead does) is decidedly a WORSE option, in my humble opinion, than a head/neck shot...you're basically using a FMJ at that point and if you don't flip their switch I dunno exactly how "quick" death is going to be.

I'm sorry but with all due respect you are flat wrong. The problem is that no matter how skilled of a shooter you are and how immune you are to buck fever, the animal can always take a step or move its head as you are squeezing the trigger. The margin for error is simply too small to allow for anything less than perfection. An attempted head shot that hits the lower jaw is almost always fatal due to eventual starvation but that makes a gut shot look fast and pain free by comparison. A botched neck shot is likely not fatal but still results in a wounded, likely non-recoverable deer. A non-expanding bullet through the lungs is proven fatal and quickly. As I said air gun hunters accomplish this regularly on deer sized game. African hunters use solids on the biggest game, the calibers are larger and they are not subsonic but the principle is the same and the relative size of the animals removes the benefits of the larger diameter and higher velocity. If you fully puncture the chest cavity, the lungs collapse, and suffocation occurs quickly.

 

[avboiler11]

I'm sorry but with all due respect you are flat wrong.

You are certainly entitled to your opinion; the two deer I have beaned at 65 yards might disagree.

You don't like the thought of a CNS shot because of the risk of wounding; I don't like the thought of using a non-expanding bullet (let's call it a "field point") for a subsonic vitals shot for the same reason.

May we all take the shots we are comfortable with taking...

 

[oldpink]

You are certainly entitled to your opinion; the two deer I have beaned at 65 yards might disagree.

You don't like the thought of a CNS shot because of the risk of wounding; I don't like the thought of using a non-expanding bullet (let's call it a "field point") for a subsonic vitals shot for the same reason.

May we all take the shots we are comfortable with taking...

Not being argumentative here, but your anecdotal history of taking two deer with fusebox hits isn't really giving the full picture.
Ask the people who have taken scores of deer and they'll tell you that, yes a perfectly placed shot in the brain pan will bring down deer faster than anything else, but they'll also point out that the brain pan is a much smaller target than the boiler room heart/lung zone, smaller by a factor of 5 at least.
On top of that, the head moves a lot, especially with a deer likely to be a bit nervous if it's aware of your presence, and making a perfect shot in the fusebox gets all the more difficult.
As said earlier, if you don't hit Central Control, you'll cause a terrible wound that will probably be ultimately fatal, but it'll also probably allow your quarry to escape only to suffer over a period of hours or even days before it eventually succumbs to starvation and/or infection.
I've only taken three deer so far, but all of them fell rapidly to boiler room shots, the second (buck) ran about 75 yards before dropping stone dead when struck low in the boiler room; the third (doe) ran only 25 yards and dropped stone dead when struck in the aorta (the most fatal part of the heart/lung zone); and the first dropped literally in her tracks because the Hornady FTX bullet broke her neck as it exited when I shot her through the boiler room as she was facing me, but the boiler room shot alone was more than enough to have killed her, with the unintentional neck break only stopping her from moving a muscle when it happened.
It's for this reason that boiler room shots are the standard with just about any big game, with expanding bullets naturally.

 

[two70]

You are certainly entitled to your opinion; the two deer I have beaned at 65 yards might disagree.

You don't like the thought of a CNS shot because of the risk of wounding; I don't like the thought of using a non-expanding bullet (let's call it a "field point") for a subsonic vitals shot for the same reason.

May we all take the shots we are comfortable with taking...

By all means take the shot you are comfortable with..... however experience has taught me that if you flirt with a small margin for error long enough, bad things will eventually happen. You mention two cases of personal experience where things went perfectly, I am speaking from experience when things didn't go perfectly. Both shot options are fatal when things go right but the heart lung vital area is nearly 4x the diameter of the brain and even if you miss that 8 inch target you still could hit the liver which will kill fairly quickly. Which is more likely, hitting a 2.5" diameter target prone to sudden, rapid movement or hitting a relatively stationary 8" target? Expansion and high velocity are great for killing quickly ..... but not necessary. I'm not against CNS shots when they makes sense, in fact I advocate targeting the CNS when bowhunting for turkeys or hunting hogs, but for deer it doesn't make a lot of sense in most cases.

 

[Paul30]

Suppressors are excellent engineered hearing protection for the shooter, and all those around. It keeps from spooking the deer in a large area which causes a lot of panic shooters from other hunters to "pop off a few rounds" at running deer. If you hunt some game with a dog, it protects the dogs ears too or a child you may have with you teaching to hunt. As for the AR 15 they have looked cool from the beginning, and look even cooler with a can on the barrel. I love the look of the AR 15, and love the look with a can even more. A pistol AR 15 with a Sig Arm brace will reduce the overall length compared to a rifle, and work very well in the hands of a competent shooter.

Best Bullets for Deer Hunting - Game & Fish " Their new 220-grain Ballistic Tip Round Nose bullet load for the .300 Blackout will expand to double diameter and penetrate about 20 inches in 10% ordnance gelatin. This is satisfactory performance for any deer bullet and equals that of the time proven-.30-30 Winchester. It’s affordable and the tip even glows in the dark! "

Looks great, works great, and when we can now hunt with a 40 S&W cal rifle, you get more options. Oh, and the chicks dig it..... https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d6tRUYfq6KQ

 

[padawan]

FWIW, we used 110gr. Barnes Tac-TX all copper poly tip this weekend for youth deer hunt. We both had Howard Leight electronic hearing protection. We chose the Barnes because it was the most accurate this summer vs. Hornady and Sierra while still being hard hitting. It wasn't his best shot placement but 100% DRT in a quick target-acquisition-shoot situation. The downside to the Barnes Tac-TX is $. They are pricey. YMMV.

[video=youtube;HwqjUYzV27A]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HwqjUYzV27A&feature=youtu.be[/video]

 

[Hookeye]

Do whatever you want.
Just report back with the outcome (facts only).

Prefer boiler room shots, but if close enough and frontal or away spine (of the neck) is all I have, I'll take (and make) it.
I shoot decent, shoot decent/tested gear.

Killed a few dozen deer, never get amped before or during the shot.

After?

Getting out of a treestand with a bad case of Jimmy leg...............horrible!

 

[Hookeye]

I dunno, buddies with subsonic .300 AAC say it arcs pretty bad. Could offer some problems in a wooded setting?
I'd quite trying to be "too different" and just run reg .300 AAC hunting load.

 

[Hookeye]

Some folks sit in stands/blinds that offer a solid rest and shots are at known yardages, possibly without obstructions.
Others could be still hunting wooded areas, shots be at less than perfectly measured distances, with stuff between them and the critter.

I like variety in hunting, so "deer sniping" wouldn't be my cup o' tea. Have gear that would do it just fine.
Just not interested.

For me, I like the timber, and when of some topography. Ag fields and rangefinders, no thanks. My bud's dad's place is like that.............big deer too.
I hunt the smaller section, swamp and ditches.

Pick whatever you want, just make sure you employ it correctly

Proly killed half my deer from still hunting. Get burned out sitting in a stand after just a few days. Sure do miss the big woods and being able to move around.