.358 winchester short

[mwilson]

thought i would try and make a 358 winchester short. necked up some 308 cases and trimed to 1.8 . the neck was about .016 thick. seated a 225 grain sierra gameking bullet. would not chamber. neck was to thick. necked up some 243 to 708 then 308 then 358. streched the case neck enough to thin it out to .012. trimed it to 1.8 seated the 225 bullet and chambers fine. i think neck tension will be alright also. pulled the bullet back out and it seemed tight enough. i also ran the short neck into my 357 mag die and it sized it down to .350, the .358 die sized it down to .355 so if the .003 isnt enough i can always go to .008 and that should do it. going to be interesting to see what happens when the case is fired and then resized. seated the bullets .235 in the case for an overall length of 2.070. about .70 shorter than the 225 gameking bullet in the 358 case. going to load some up and see how it shoots sunday.

 

[Broom_jm]

I don't know...that looks like a REALLY short neck. What is that; about .150", right?

I've got a couple of wildcats with what I would call a short neck, but they look like a giraffe, next to what I see in the picture above!

 

[parson]

There was a conversation on the savageshooter site, where that consensus seemed to be that a .308 could safely, (not accurately) be fired through a .358 to fire form the cases.

I'm looking at rebarreling my savage 110 to this caliber. If I do, I'll likely trim to .179 just in case a CO has a dirty caliper.

The neck length is short, but the .357-.44 bain-davis has about the same length neck and is fired in a revolver without any bullet pull problem. If that becomes an issue in a heavier recoiling rifle, they can always be loaded single shot.

I'm very interested in seeing how this shoots for you.

 

[Broom_jm]

Parson,

You might want to edit your post to say .358 instead of .458?

Good catch on the 357B&D...the neck on that baby is EXACTLY 150 thousandths of an inch! Very interesting. A shortened 358 Win would require a custom chamber reamer but not custom dies...that would help keep the project costs down.

 

[parson]

Man! Need to stay away from computer before my coffee kicks in!

Trying to fire a .308 round through a .458 barrel would be a good idea! Brass confetti!

 

[mwilson]

I don't know...that looks like a REALLY short neck. What is that; about .150", right?

I've got a couple of wildcats with what I would call a short neck, but they look like a giraffe, next to what I see in the picture above!

your right the neck is very short. there is still plenty of neck tension though. if you try to push the bullet against the bench with your hand you cannot move it at all. when i pulled one back out it took as much force on the pliers as my 308. only concern is if they are centered good in the case

 

[rimfire_crazed]

Interested to see how these fire. Keep us posted.

 

[Yeah]

Concentricity would concern me more than tension.

Who is building your reamer?

 

[mwilson]

Concentricity would concern me more than tension.

Who is building your reamer?

why do i need a reamer. all i am doing is triming the neck. round will still chamber and headspace on the same shoulder. if the bullet jump is to far and its not accurate i will simply trim the dies back and set the shoulder back for a longer neck the trim the barrel at the chamber also

 

[Skip]

I have a .358/25WSSM barrel from MGM that I bought through Just Hunt in Wabash.

I have a load that will push the Nosler Accubond 225gr bullet to 2500fps and group @ MOA, um, I don't think I need anything more or different for that matter.

The brass has been shot a bunch and I did lose one case due to too fast of an up action when loading and the neck bent and upon trying to straighten it, it tore.

Still, I have loads that will throw a 180gr into a MOA ring @ 100 and do it with over 2700fps! My 200gr load is just under that at 2650fps and will groups about the same.

It is on the Encore platform and is a good setup.

Hope this works for you though.

Best to ya!

 

[mwilson]

I have a .358/25WSSM barrel from MGM that I bought through Just Hunt in Wabash.

I have a load that will push the Nosler Accubond 225gr bullet to 2500fps and group @ MOA, um, I don't think I need anything more or different for that matter.

The brass has been shot a bunch and I did lose one case due to too fast of an up action when loading and the neck bent and upon trying to straighten it, it tore.

Still, I have loads that will throw a 180gr into a MOA ring @ 100 and do it with over 2700fps! My 200gr load is just under that at 2650fps and will groups about the same.



It is on the Encore platform and is a good setup.

Hope this works for you though.

Best to ya!

what was that all about? i to have a 358wssm and it to will run the same velocities and groups under an inch. it took 2 deer this year also. all this thread is about is an experiment. something to do. if it works fine. if not i havent lost a thing. bought my 358 winchester barrel from savageshooters for 100.00 so i havent spent alot of money playing. so umm i dont care if you dont need anything different or more for that matter

 

[Skip]

Well, I didn't know that you have a .358WSSM!

All it was about was sharing my experience with that caliber. I did just wonder why someone would go through the exercise that you are with things as readily available as this wildcat already is. That was all.

Hopefully, this will work out for you. I understand why some folks have to do things on their own. I did that with my loads for the 358WSSM.

I do have dies for the 35Rem too but nothing to shoot it out of! Maybe I need to do what you are doing! Buy a 35Rem barrel for my Encore!

 

[Yeah]

why do i need a reamer

I wish you much luck and hopes for a speedy conclusion to INDNR's stalk of rifle cartridges.

 

[mwilson]

I wish you much luck and hopes for a speedy conclusion to INDNR's stalk of rifle cartridges.

dont need luck. if the cartridge case itself is no more than 1.8 then what are they going to do, a chamber cast to see if the barrel is legal? all this thread was to be was an experiment and it seems everyone wants to stick thier 2 cents in about everything except the subject. no wonder i dont post much

 

[fireball168]

I trimmed some Jamison 358 Winchester brass to 1.8" this afternoon.

Seated a 225 Partition to 2.750" for the BLR magazine using a Vickerman style seating die.

No visual runout rolling the cartridge across the workbench after seating. I need to unpack my case runout gauges and see what it actually is.

They seem to feed from the magazine fine, no measurable projectile setback after four feeding cycles. Afterwards, still no visible case or projectile runout rolling them across the workbench either.

Loaded up nine with RL-7 and the 225 Partition, will see how they perform this week.

Those cases sure look funny, but there seems to be decent neck tension. The 358 Win Redding seating die I've got here will apply a slight crimp even with the short neck.

 

[Yeah]

dont need luck. if the cartridge case itself is no more than 1.8 then what are they going to do, a chamber cast to see if the barrel is legal? all this thread was to be was an experiment and it seems everyone wants to stick thier 2 cents in about everything except the subject. no wonder i dont post much

What in my posts in this thread do you find off subject?

I suppose you could consider peripheral my not missing an opportunity to poke fun at INDNR trying to keep the woods safe by adding fractions of an inch per year to the maximum cartridge length. Or my lack of patience at the whole thing hoping they would just get to the 'use whatever rifle you like' finish line without all this screwing around.

As for the reamer, I've never found necks shortened past the turbulence point to perform. Though our ballistic expectations are obviously different, I'm not contriving to shoot a 0.358" diameter bullet out of anything anyway, I would expect a purpose built chamber could help mitigate that.

 

[Broom_jm]

I don't see anything here worth getting worked up over, that's for sure. Just a few gun nuts testing the new rules, ridiculous as they may be, that the IDNR has imposed on us. We're all on the same side here, aren't we?

Fireball, those rounds do look strange, with the super-short necks and the LOOOONG bullet sticking out. All that really matters is what you tested, and, of course, do they shoot? Sure, it would be a legal means of getting there, and would be inexpensive, but if they don't group well at reasonable distances, they're worse than useless...right? Just like my thought of doing the same thing with a 35 Remington case; if the shortened neck won't get the bullet started into the bore consistently and accuracy suffers, you're better off with a 358BFG or maybe a 357 Herrett. Putting the bullet where it needs to go trumps an "easy" wildcat configuration, in my book.

 

[fireball168]

All that really matters is what you tested, and, of course, do they shoot?

Will know how, or if, they perform out of this rifle later this week.

I'd thrown away/sold off all my XP-100 35 Remington stuff four years ago, bought a couple of barrels and some brass yesterday. With any luck will try that as well before New Years.

 

[mwilson]

shot the 358 today. the group on the right is the unmodified 358 win. case. all the loads used the same bullet 225 sgk with varget powder. the groups on the left are the 1.8 cases. i would say the 100.00 barrel i bought is a shooter with the unmodified case. .362 for 3 shots with the first load tried. i tried 6 different 358 short loads with the same bullet and the same powder but with increasing powder charges. they all shot between 1.6 to 2.4 inch groups. looks like the bullet does not like the long jump. could be i havent found the right charge also. the case hods 9 percent less powder than the unmodified case so thats where i started and kept working up. will keep trying different things and see what happens.

 

[Skip]

shot the 358 today. the group on the right is the unmodified 358 win. case. all the loads used the same bullet 225 sgk with varget powder. the groups on the left are the 1.8 cases. i would say the 100.00 barrel i bought is a shooter with the unmodified case. .362 for 3 shots with the first load tried. i tried 6 different 358 short loads with the same bullet and the same powder but with increasing powder charges. they all shot between 1.6 to 2.4 inch groups. looks like the bullet does not like the long jump. could be i havent found the right charge also. the case hods 9 percent less powder than the unmodified case so thats where i started and kept working up. will keep trying different things and see what happens.

Thanks for the report! Have you thought about trying the Nosler Accubond in 225gr? The bullet is a TON longer and won't have near as far to jump to the lands. Just a thought.

I have both bullets for the .358/25 WSSM Encore I am shooting. To be honest, I have been trying to get the Nosler to over 2500fps and stay in a MOA group. So far, I have done so with H322. IMR3031 is also giving me better velocities in the much shorter case. Not trying to hijack your thread, just share a bit of info!

I will be waiting to hear more! That full size case/barrel combination seems to be doing right well! That would be a keeper!

Just an after thought, did you use some crimp on the shorter case? The bullet may not have enough holding it to cause a good ignition. What was the velocity of the loads you tried?

Just curious! Again, thanks for the report!