.44 mag rifle loads for hunting?

[Hoosierdood]

I recently picked up a H&R Handi-rifle to use this year for deer season. The barrel is 22" with a 1/38" twist. I am having trouble getting the bullets to stabilize past 75 yards. At 50 yards, this thing is an absolute tack driver. When I go out to 75 yards, I get about 2"-3" groups - still good enough for deer hunting. At 100 yards, I can't even hit the paper. Here is what I have tried using:

240 gn Rem semi-jacketed HP / 22.3 gn H110

180 gn XTP / 29 gn H110

When I started having trouble getting any accuracy over 75 yards with the 240 gn Rem, I thought it might help to have a lighter, faster bullet. I tried the 180 gn XTP's and really haven't seen any improvement. I would like to find a round that is good to 100-125 yards. Anyone have any experience?

 

[hammer24]

When you say they are not stabilizing, you don't mean keyholing do you? I had a real time finding something mine would shoot, but what finally worked was 24.5 gr. H110 under a 240 gr. Hornady xtp, starline brass and cci 350 primers. About 2" @ 100 yds, and 4-5" @ 200. Do you have ballard or micro-groove rifling? My son's .44 has ballard and shoots the nosler 200 Jhp's, mine is micro-groove and slugged @ .4305 (slightly over bored.)

 

[Hoosierdood]

I believe mine to be Ballard rifling. When I say the bullet is not stabilizing, I mean that it is stable up to around 75 yards, then they lose their stability. When I shoot at 50 yards, I will often have 2 shots touching each other. However, when I move out to 75 yards, my groups start getting larger, and at 100 yards, I get nothing but flyers. No keyholes that I have seen. I know others who have had their .44 mag rifles reach out to 150-200 yards. I would be happy with 100-125 right now. I know it has to be an ammo problem, but it's just a matter of finding what load this rifle likes, and I'm running out of time.

 

[hammer24]

I've heard good things about the Winchester white box ammo as well as the Hornady LE. Could be a quick fix if one of those would shoot! That 1:38 twist will stabilze almost everything up to and possibly above 300 gr. How accurate they are is another question. I could see stabilization problems coming from a really long projectile like the the 265 FTX which is .429 but designed for the 444. At this point I'd be trying to find a factory load as a stop-gap for this season.

 

[45fan]

Hammer24's 240gr XTP load is what my sons Rossi handi rifle, and my Rossi lever gun like. The best factory load I have found for either of our rifles is the Remington UMC 180gr JFP load.
The only other load I have tried in these rifles is a relatively mild load of Universal Clays under a 240gr lead Semiwadcutter. With good shot placement, even that load should be enough to plant a full size deer at 100 yards.

 

[builder_one]

I've experimented with several factory loads in my Ruger 77/44 (although it's a 20 twist barrel). It shot very well with Winchester white box, PMC 180g jhp, Federal American Eagle 240 gr jhp, and Magtech 240gr jsp. Maybe give one of these a shot and see how they do, good luck!

ETA: By shooting very well I mean between 1.25-2 MOA @ 100 yds

 

[shooter1054]

I use a 240 XTP over 24gn of Win 296. I seem to be getting 3" at 100 yards. I'm shooting a Marlin 1894

 

[Mr.Lubie]

I run 20gn of 2400 using a 240xtp and starline brass.Shoots really good out of my H&R

 

[parson]

The Handi guru on graybeard says that H&R has an accuracy standard of 2" at 100 yards. It might be worth a phone call to see if they'll help you out.

 

[kludge]

...

 

[Skip]

I spent this whole summer perfecting loads for my M77/44, Marlin 1894 and Encore 44Mag Carbine.

1" @ 100 yards when I do my part. 2 different loads. 240gr LRNFPHP @ 1800fps from the Marlin. 240gr XTP @ 1780fps from the other two.

FWIW

Encore, after getting it sighted in:

Marlin using 50 yard sighting @ 100:

Home cast bullet for the Marlin:

Hardest thing I have ever done with a firearm was to get this Marlin to shoot those lead bullets at that velocity! Works now!

 

[buckhunterbb]

Home cast bullet for the Marlin:

Hardest thing I have ever done with a firearm was to get this Marlin to shoot those lead bullets at that velocity! Works now!

Nice looking lead reload. Don't the other 2 rifles like this load?

 

[Skip]

The Ruger's twist is 1:20", just a bit fast for that bullet. I wanted to get the Encore ready for hunting too and didn't want to have to "work it out" too. There is another 11 months for all of that!

p.s. The Marlin has a 1:38" twist and doesn't seem to spin them so fast. Hope this helps.

 

[miles2253]

I am in a similar situation. I am working up a load for my father-in-law's Marlin 1894. He would like to get down to about 2"-3" groups at 100 yds. I will load up some 180 gr XTPs with 29 gr H110 tonight and try them tomorrow.

 

[Skip]

From experience, the 240gr shoot better in the Marlin. Getting lead to shoot was the only chore. Man was that work!

My load for the Marlin and 240gr XTP is a maximum load of H110/W296. That gives me right at 1750fps or so. Less than 1 1/2" @ 100 if I do my part.

One thing to remember when sighting in a pistol caliber carbine, the bullet is in the barrel for a LONG time, (called barrel dwell time) compared to a "real" rifle. That means that your follow through is VERY important. Muzzles need to be held down if possible to find out "cartridge", or load accuracy. For hunting, you have to work on follow through too. Using slings and sticks or branches or tree stand rails to rest against is a good idea too.


Just sayin'

 

[baldguy637]

I recently picked up a H&R Handi-rifle to use this year for deer season. The barrel is 22" with a 1/38" twist. I am having trouble getting the bullets to stabilize past 75 yards. At 50 yards, this thing is an absolute tack driver. When I go out to 75 yards, I get about 2"-3" groups - still good enough for deer hunting. At 100 yards, I can't even hit the paper. Here is what I have tried using:

240 gn Rem semi-jacketed HP / 22.3 gn H110

180 gn XTP / 29 gn H110

When I started having trouble getting any accuracy over 75 yards with the 240 gn Rem, I thought it might help to have a lighter, faster bullet. I tried the 180 gn XTP's and really haven't seen any improvement. I would like to find a round that is good to 100-125 yards. Anyone have any experience?

A buddy ran into the same problem with his new H&R a few weeks ago. He tried the 225gr leverevolution and 240gr XTP, neither did well at all over 70 yards or so. He told me he tried the 300gr XTP and it seemed to solved the problem all together getting 1.5-2" three shot groups at 100yds, but i have not personally seen the results.

 

[Skip]

A buddy ran into the same problem with his new H&R a few weeks ago. He tried the 225gr leverevolution and 240gr XTP, neither did well at all over 70 yards or so. He told me he tried the 300gr XTP and it seemed to solved the problem all together getting 1.5-2" three shot groups at 100yds, but i have not personally seen the results.

The problem with using 300gr XTP's is velocity. You get little better use of the barrel than shooting them out of a revolver. They seat so deep in the case, they only turn in 1300fps ish velocity. Up to 50 yards or so, fine. After that they fall like a rock out of a sling shot.

I will have to dig up my data and post it. I hate to post loads from memory.

There is one suggestion I would make to those using the 240gr XTP: if you are NOT shooting them out of a revolver, try Hogdon's Lil' Gun. It will give you higher velocity in the longer barrel. Another powder to try is the new Alliant 300MP. Both are slower than H110/W296, and that will give you better velocity/inches of barrel ratio.

Hope this helps. I went to an old, old, favorite of mine for my loads, WC820. It is a military surplus powder that in some lots has a burn rate like AA#9, while in others has one similar but slower than H110/W296. Mine is the latter and I can use more like 25gr with a 240gr bullet. Gives me right at 1800fps from all of my 44Mag rifles.

 

[Skip]

p.s. I had a friend that shot a 180gr bullet at a deer only it was from a revolver and it was 44Spl, if memory serves me. Not sure of the distance, but, knowing him, it was a bit longer than it should have been.

Long story short, it kind of splattered on the side, made a visible mark that he saw, and the deer ran, and ran, and ran and they never did get it!

Crank them up to the 2000fps mark from the rifle, you may have a much better chance at it!

 

[Hoosierdood]

UPDATE:
So I went out shooting today while the temps were in the 30's and there were scattered flurries. I tried a 3 shot group only to find out the same old story. The 3 shots are in a perfect line walking low and right. About 2" between each shot. I thought it was odd that they would be in a straight line instead of just being fliers all over the paper. So I tried a couple different things. I cleaned the bore and fired a fouling shot and then waited a couple minutes and fired from a cold bore. The shot was high and slightly right. Tried a couple different loads at different distances, and then like a light bulb, it occurred to me...it's not the ammo, it's the temperature of the barrel.

I had heard of guns throwing the occasional flier when the barrel is hot, but had never seen a gun be so finicky about temp as this gun. So I tried an experiment. Judging from the first shot after the previous fouling shot, I estimated the gun was shooting 5" high at 50 yards. In my other shots, it seemed to be right on at 75 yds and low at 100 yds. I dropped the sights by 3" and let the barrel sit for a good 5 minutes to cool down. I fired a shot and it was 1.5" high at 50 yards. I let the gun sit for another 5 minutes and fired a second shot. Sure enough the 2 shots were touching each other. I moved the target out to 100 yards, and waited another 5 minutes. My shot was about 1" low.

So...this gun is EXTREMELY sensitive to the temp of the barrel. So sensitive that it is IMPOSSIBLE to get a 3 shot group without taking a good 5 minute break between shots. I now have the scope zeroed in at 75 yards out of a cold bore, since I will be shooting out of a cold bore during deer season. Never in a million years would I have thought that it would turn out to be this kind of problem.

 

[Skip]

Similar story: A friend of mine has a 243 barrel for his Encore. 3 shot groups were impossible. First one would go right where the sights were, the others, straight line down.

He is a tool & die technician with a bunch of special metal experience and what he attributes it to is "stress" in the barrel. He sent it back to Thompson Center, they had it a while, sent it back with a work ticket that said: "Barrel Repair". That wasn't going to do it for him, so he called for an explaination. Got the run around, and they told him to shoot it and see what happened. Well, we are all still waiting, seems like deer season has hit us and he has no time to check it out.

It is a Pro Hunter barrel too, stainless steel and ribbed. At any rate, I will try to find out how things go and post his results when he shoots it. From what I know about metal, which is very little, you can heat it up to a certain point and the stress will be relieved.

I'm not saying I understand that, I'm just sayin'!