44 magnum reloading problem

[Long Rider]

Bought a Ruger 77 in 44 magnum. Sighted in with factory Hornady 240 grain XTP at 100 yards. Shot under 2 inch groups. Reloaded with Hornady 240 grain XTP bullets, new Hornady brass, Winchester large pistol primers. 5 each of 23 grains, 23.5 grains, and 24 grains of IMR 4227. Length of 1.6 inches. They shot about 6-8 inches low. Never loaded straight walled cases for a rifle before, so I am wondering if anyone has a suggestion as to why they shoot low. Could it be the crimp?

 

[Mgderf]

 

[hammer24]

I'd guess your hand loads have a lower velocity than the factory loads (different powders, burn rates, pressures, etc.) A chronograph would probably explain the different POI.

I shoot a 77/44 and 240 xtps too, but load with H110. A heavy crimp works best for this combo. No experience with 4227.

 

[mssmith44]

I would guess that your handloads have a higher velocity and get out of the barrel quicker, before it has a chance to recoil up.
I know that lighter bullets will hit lower at long range for this same reason.

 

[Westside]

I second the Chrono. and I have never loaded 44 mag but scroll half way down and you will see a recipe for your bullets and your powder. It looks like you might be a little light on the powder. As usual follow the reloading manuals and IANAL, YMMV, attempt at your own risk. and guns are dangerous. 44 Magnum Load Data - Handloads.Com

 

[Long Rider]

Thanks for the replies. I will try the chrono. According to my Hornady manual, 24.2 is the max load. It should be at 1700 fps at that load out of an 18 inch barrel. This is about the same as Hornady says the factory ammo should be.

 

[trophyhunter]

Thanks for the replies. I will try the chrono. According to my Hornady manual, 24.2 is the max load. It should be at 1700 fps at that load out of an 18 inch barrel. This is about the same as Hornady says the factory ammo should be.

So I did this a year ago for a friend using the same rifle and bullet/powder/primer combo what we found was spot on with your findings of the load shooting low and not making velocity. It took 24.8 grains of IMR 4227 to make a ten shot average of 1,713 fps. and it still shot 3/4" low at 100 yards with his rifle having been zeroed with factory 240 xtp's.

I didn't want to take the load any higher than 24.8 as it was already slightly compressed and I didn't own that rifle but having run it through quickload it showed the pressure at 35,504psi crimped at the very bottom of the cannelure (1.605) so it was still inside of the pressure ceiling. We quit there and he re-zeroed and hunts that load now.

 

[phatgemi]

I would experiment with different powders, esp h110.

 

[snapping turtle]

I would experiment with different powders, esp h110.

In the 44 mag I have had my best loads for rifle with h110/296 , 2400 and lil gun. H110 for full boat loads as that is all it is good for run it full or forget it. 2400 for mid velocity loads as it get dirty with u burned powder at full load and now lil gun which I see some good promise with. Ran out of lil gun before testing was complete as my 222 rem and 22 hornet love it.

 

[partyboy6686]

You need some H110 or W296. Indy Gun Club had both in stock last time I was there.

 

[Contender]

4227 is probably giving you a different velocity than the factory loads. Most people recommend 110 and I have used it also. Most loading manuals will show quit a higher velocity for 110 than 4227 in any part of the range from high to low and I would assume most factory loads use a ball powder like 110.

In my case, I load the 4227 if it will group good in my guns. It has a whole lot less flash and blast than the 110 and I just enjoy shooting it more. Accuracy might be a little worse but not enough to matter to me and I do not need that extra velocity to target shoot at 50 yards or kill a deer. I load 22gr. with that bullet. Have loaded 24 gr before but it flattened primers on hot days.

 

[Broom_jm]

4227 is a little bit slower-burning, making it better when used with heavier bullets from the 44 magnum.

Your first post asked about the crimp, but I've seen no clarification; how much crimp are you applying? Have you tried a factory crimp die? Starting pressure can make a very big difference in a straight-walled pistol load, in terms of how much MV it ultimately creates.

 

[Long Rider]

Your first post asked about the crimp, but I've seen no clarification; how much crimp are you applying? Have you tried a factory crimp die? Starting pressure can make a very big difference in a straight-walled pistol load, in terms of how much MV it ultimately creates.

I am using a lee factory crimp die. Thought it was a medium crimp. Tried to set up to match the factory crimp to start. Might try tightening it some.

 

[Long Rider]

So I did this a year ago for a friend using the same rifle and bullet/powder/primer combo what we found was spot on with your findings of the load shooting low and not making velocity. It took 24.8 grains of IMR 4227 to make a ten shot average of 1,713 fps. and it still shot 3/4" low at 100 yards with his rifle having been zeroed with factory 240 xtp's.

I didn't want to take the load any higher than 24.8 as it was already slightly compressed and I didn't own that rifle but having run it through quickload it showed the pressure at 35,504psi crimped at the very bottom of the cannelure (1.605) so it was still inside of the pressure ceiling. We quit there and he re-zeroed and hunts that load now.

According to IMR, max load is 24 grains, producing 36100 cup and a volocity of 1778 out of a 20 inch barrel. Would be slower out of an 18 barrel. Max cup for 44 magnum is 40000 and 36000 psi. So I should be able to do that load. But think I will try working up to it.

 

[snapping turtle]

The crimp is important. I think with 2400 I found a factory crimp die and it helped with consistency in my spread of velocity.It also helped with 2400 burning more powder. The crimp can't be overlooked. Also under 240 grain pills I use 2400 or lil gun. 240 and over seem to like the faster push of h110. I no longer run 300 grain hard cast like some. I have found the better bullets of today have made the heavy for caliber not worth the lesser pro romance. Those xtp's and my plain jane 240 JSP work better for me than the big heavy slugs.

 

[trophyhunter]

According to IMR, max load is 24 grains, producing 36100 cup and a volocity of 1778 out of a 20 inch barrel. Would be slower out of an 18 barrel. Max cup for 44 magnum is 40000 and 36000 psi. So I should be able to do that load. But think I will try working up to it.

You know it was painful to stop just short of having that load shoot to the same POI as factory loaded ammunition and re-zero that optic being so close, had it been my rifle I'm confident another two or three tenths of propellant would have gotten it there and been plenty safe. The groups had tightened up as that load was worked up to, they were all going into a nice clover leaf pattern when we quit.

Anxious to hear how you do with it, I always felt like I had unfinished business with that load.

 

[Long Rider]

Anxious to hear how you do with it, I always felt like I had unfinished business with that load.

It will be a couple of weeks. Got some traveling to do. Might get to the range next week, but I doubt it.

Never had that much of a change between hand loads and factory before. Will be interesting.

 

[Fishersjohn48]

Here comes scooter

 

[bart1533]

Had the same issue. Switched to H110.. problem solved...

 

[UncleNorby]

I don't see this as a problem necessarily, assuming the sight/scope can be adjusted to get the bullet to the desired POI. Without a chrono, you can still look at the trajectory change between say 50 yds and 100 yds, and compare that to trajectory charts using known velocities. If you see similar trajectory, you have similar velocity. If the velocity is good enough, I see no problem worth worrying over.

Barrel whip can cause differences in POI without great differences in velocity. For one load, a bullet may exit the muzzle on the "upstroke" of the whip, and for another load, may exit on the "downstroke". Then factor in any differences recoil/muzzle flip.