9x23 cartridge. Any aficionados?

[rockhopper46038]

Clearly Que pretty much ended the 9mm vs. .40 S&W vs. .45ACP caliber wars.

However, after just picking up a CZ clone in .38 Super (cuz, why not?) I have learned of a cartridge which I had not heard of before, yet would seem to offer all the prodigious energy benefits of the .45ACP while retaining the enormous magazine capacity (in this case, 17+1) of the 9mm.

Ladies and gentlemen, the 9x23 Win.

I can get a stock 9mm barrel reamed for the cartridge pretty easily (although apparently this particular clone will also chamber the 9x23 Win in its .38 Super barrel) and substitute in some stouter (22lb or 24lb) recoil springs, maybe even a Shok-Buf and a Hennings improved guide rod, and have an 18 round carry pistol with .45ACP energy (.357 Magnum energy, if handloaded), which sounds like a pretty good SD package. As an admitted .45ACP carrier, I think this looks like it may merit serious consideration...

Anyone have some old IPSC experience with this cartridge to share?

 

[ROLEXrifleman]

I still have a factory chambered colt 1911 in 9x23 it's nothing new and nothing worth trying to bring back.
I even sold my STI Eagle 6" in 9x23 cuase it wasnt worth it. The push has always been .357 mag performance in a semi auto. the fact is we have eclipsed that performance with the 10mm and matched it with the .357 sig and others. the recoil is the issue so many have fallen to the way side. If you wanna try and bring it back good kluck, theres a reason its dead. I'm glad you found out about it, at least to learn it's gone for a reason.

 

[fireball168]

It was a great little carbine cartridge, had as much fun with it as what I did the 7.62x25.

Sold a few rifle barrels, interest waned - only get a couple of inquiries a year for it these days.

 

[throttletony]

Or check out the 9x25. (10mm case necked down to 9mm, same idea as the .40 s&w necked down to 9mm to make 357sig)

 

[Mosinguy]

I'd like to get a 1912 Steyr someday, but that is a different 9x23 if I remember correctly. Not loaded to as high of a pressure.

 

[rockhopper46038]

See, the thing I liked about the 9x23 Win is the increased magazine capacity. Hell, I've already got a .460 Rowland that holds 8+1 if my only concern was energy. The 10mm was mentioned but for the pistols I'm interested in it doesn't provide enough bump in capacity over 45ACP to get me excited about it. Anyhoo - I'm still interested in more comments!

And I need to look more closely at .357 Sig, but since its a necked down 40 I would guess it will still have be limited to the capacity of a 10mm.

 

[NHT3]

Why not bite the bullet and get a 22 TCM to play with.. Has a 9MM barrel along with the TCM, 17+1 capacity and the energy of a 45 ACP (with MUCH less recoil). I know from what I've seen you post you've considered it. PM me if you think you want one, I may have a line on one.
[FONT=&quot]NRA Life member [/FONT][FONT=&quot]GSSF member[/FONT][FONT=&quot]
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[Rob377]

You wouldn't even need to handload.

http://www.winchester.com/Products/handgun-ammunition/Performance/Super-X-handgun/Pages/X923W.aspx

Winchester silvertips will hurl a 125gr HP at 1450fps, just like the legendary 357 magnum loads that 357 SIG tries to duplicate.

But, I think they're the only ones making anything for that cartridge.

The 357SIG will put up the same numbers, but you'll lose ~2rds (Glock 31@15+1 vs. G17 @17+1)
The trade off is that you get a smaller grip. You will not be able to run 9x23 in just any 9mm. The cartridge is too long, so you'd need to run it out of a 1911/2011 or large frame Tanfoglio or something along those lines. EG - the max OAL you can fit in a G17 mag is ~1.15 - 1.16. Any longer and they won't fit. 9x23 OAL run in the 1.25 ballpark (about the same OAL as a 45 ACP)

357 SIG runs at 1.135-1.140, so it'll run in all kinds of smaller frames, Glocks, Sig P226s and so on. More platform choices. If you want 17+1 of 9x23, you're carrying either a large frame Tanfo or a 2011, and that's pretty much it.

 

[rockhopper46038]

You nailed it, Rob. I picked up a Tanfoglio Witness Match in .38 Super from a member, and I was thinking of turning it up to 11....

 

[Rob377]

Being the oddball cartridge aficionado that I am.....

38 Super isn't tapered, 9x23 is (slightly) ... I wonder if that matters when reaming it out?

Ya know, 38 Super Comp would probably run in that thing. Thicker case web than 38 Super and rimless design. Brass is probably easier to get than 9x23 since it's the hot setup for USPSA Open guns.

 

[rockhopper46038]

I was going to buy a sacrificial 9mm barrel; maybe even a 6" version...

 

[mssmith44]

Have you tried any 9X23 in your 38 super barrel? You are probably good to go with your super barrel. My 38 supers will run 9X23 9 largo super comp which is rimless. The slight increase in diameter of the 9mm is not enough to matter in the super barrels that I have. I think that the 9X23 factory ammo is over pressure though.

 

[bigkahunasix]

Do yourself a favor, buy an actual 9x23 barrel. You will be much happier and you reliability and safety will go way up. BTDT

 

[bigkahunasix]

Have you tried any 9X23 in your 38 super barrel? You are probably good to go with your super barrel. My 38 supers will run 9X23 9 largo super comp which is rimless. The slight increase in diameter of the 9mm is not enough to matter in the super barrels that I have. I think that the 9X23 factory ammo is over pressure though.

DO NOT RUN 9X23 IN A .38 SUPER BARREL.....BAD THINGS WILL HAPPEN. And your friends will probable start calling you "stumpy".

 

[ROLEXrifleman]

9x23 doesnt go in a .38 super barrel! as stated above
Just like 5.56 doesnt go in a gun chambered for .223.

Just cause you can doesnt mean you should.

On that not:

Here is my old STI Eagle 6.0

6" 9x23 with full length dust cover. The 170mm mags held 26-27. Cool gun but I dont miss it.

 

[Rob377]

No good for USPSA. No good for carry. I can see why you wouldn't miss it. It's kinda pointless.

 

[Niles Coyote]

Rifle performance in a handgun... 9x25... end of story.

As for 357 mag performance, very few auto's can lauch a 125 grain bullet 1500fps and faster. the 357 sig is a good round but it's no 357 magnum... 9x25 can. I shot next open class 9x25 launching 100 grainers at +2000fps, there was no doubt a gun had been fired even with double ear pro on.

 

[jspy5]

DO NOT RUN 9X23 IN A .38 SUPER BARREL.....BAD THINGS WILL HAPPEN. And your friends will probable start calling you "stumpy".

If my memory serves correct, the 9x23 casings were double wall to handle the higher pressures.

 

[rockhopper46038]

If my memory serves correct, the 9x23 casings were double wall to handle the higher pressures.

It's thick web brass, for sure. The .38 Super barrel in this Witness will run 9x23 as is, but I'd get a new barrel with a purpose reamed chamber if I did this. Still trying to decide if it would be worth it. The brass isn't cheap, the gun is just about as big as my Government Model 1911s are (but wider), and I'd need a new set of dies. I did go back and look at some of the comparable cartridges though, and the ballistics are still pretty compelling. Exceeds 357SIG by a comfortable margin.

NHT3 is right though, I've also been hemming and hawing about the RIA .22TCM/9mm package, so perhaps I'm just itchin' for something different.

 

[netlander10]

If your interested in the 9x23 check out Dane Burns website he had worked with it a lot and built quite a few 1911s chambered for it. I used to shoot it and cut down .223 brass for it for reloading , it was cheap and plentiful back then. While I can't give u the exact spec. the case walls are stout when compared to a 38 super. And that was Winchesters intention when they started production of the 9x23. High chamber pressure 50,000 cup but with their brass chances are slim of your blowing a case head. I used to have a diagram of a 38 super and a 9x23 Winchester cut in half lenghthwise side by side. Its rifle brass. I'm still a fan of the 9x23. I don't like bottleneck pistol cartridges.