A revisit to right to work

[.356luger]

https://www.indianagunowners.com/forums/general_political_discussion/183055-right_to_work.html

I started that topic for a reason not only because I'm union.It wasn't because I wanted to learn a skilled trade and decided local 440 was something I wanted to do. I started it because we'll I'm just a lazy union hvac/r mechanic that couldn't possibly think past to tomorrow. I'm not sorry I'm offensive I'm not sorry I'm not a republican nor a democrat. What a union used to be was a free standing power that could say no to Saturday and Sunday. A group of people so passionate they would quit their job for their believes.

I repost my thread because what you 144 , who voted on "yes its a good thing", saw was smoke and mirrors. You see now that guns "are a bad thing" and now it's we that are the minority. It's us that are worried about the outcome this group of evil "strong arms" and with our "death machines". Disallowing my rights as an American citizen is a disgrace and I will place an egregious dip spit on the face of anyone who feels taking our rights is morally acceptable.

Patriotic act, right to work, AWB I pledge allegiance to the flag.....

If you don't like my grammar and spelling then f*** you I was blessed with math science and critical thinking

Edit:
Oh now i have to admit this is just a post for my own entertainment. Been listening to alot of gun control advocates lately and it sounds alot like my post. Hard to understand, a little crazy perhaps, maybe even drunk. Hell apparently global warming is a factor in gun violence i figure if they are going to babble incoherently in public so can i.

I also have to admit i got to a full rolling laugh reading your post as i tried to warm up. Thanks for the laughs gents and ladies. Sometimes you just have to get 5 gallons of diesel and a stir stick set the **** pot on fire and get ingo all hot and bothered.

In conclusion ,I dont care to discuss unions its to long winded and non union and union will never see eye to eye. Now if you would like to discuss the craziest thing you have heard from gun advocates perhaps i can get another good laugh.

 

[arthrimus]

Wait so you think that being forced into a union by law is a right? It is a strange version of reality in which you reside.

 

[Liberty1911]

https://www.indianagunowners.com/forums/general_political_discussion/183055-right_to_work.html

I started that topic for a reason not only because I'm union.It wasn't because I wanted to learn a skilled trade and decided local 440 was something I wanted to do. I started it because we'll I'm just a lazy union hvac/r mechanic that couldn't possibly think past to tomorrow. I'm not sorry I'm offensive I'm not sorry I'm not a republican nor a democrat. What a union used to be was a free standing power that could say no to Saturday and Sunday. A group of people so passionate they would quit their job for their believes.

I repost my thread because what you 144 , who voted on "yes its a good thing", saw was smoke and mirrors. You see now that guns "are a bad thing" and now it's we that are the minority. It's us that are worried about the outcome this group of evil "strong arms" and with our "death machines". Disallowing my rights as an American citizen is a disgrace and I will place an egregious dip spit on the face of anyone who feels taking our rights is morally acceptable.

Patriotic act, right to work, AWB I pledge allegiance to the flag.....

If you don't like my grammar and spelling then f*** you I was blessed with math science and critical thinking

 

[Shadow8088]

don't want to work in a union shop or pay union dues? don't work there. problem solved.

 

[jath08]

don't want to work in a union shop or pay union dues? don't work there. problem solved.

Coming from a 17 year BAC Local 4 IN/KY union member here and I totally agree with this statement.

 

[jath08]

Wait so you think that being forced into a union by law is a right? It is a strange version of reality in which you reside.

No ones forcing you to join a union. If you want to work in a particular trade or field, theres always a non-union company working somewhere else that will hire you.
Unions have been around for a very long time and they have been an intrical part of the labor development movement for decades. So I dont see how you can call it a strange version of reality that the OP is living in when its been a perfect reality for many of us for years.

 

[Wysko]

OK you lost me on this one. You are upset about 'right to work' or Unions in general?

I work in a Union shop at his time. I support the Local but dispise the National. The lazy and scam artists get fired where we work.
Tell us the pros and cons from your point of view.

 

[Hawkeye]

Can't follow the post at all. Definitely NOT blessed with basic English composition. Appears not blessed with logical thinking. Cant say whether you are blessed with math or science skills.

 

[Sonney]

The major thing about right to work if your company is Union the people that pay no Union dues will still get Union protection and benefits at the expense of the Union. Lets say your Union goes out on strike this is legal now if a lot of your fellow workers are not Union they will have to work you can not get good bargaining like this. All right to work will do is to pit workers against themselves and to bust up the Union. In the end it will drive down wages and benefits the worker gets. No company wants to pay more than the have too.

 

[chris46131]

https://www.indianagunowners.com/forums/general_political_discussion/183055-right_to_work.html

I started that topic for a reason not only because I'm union.It wasn't because I wanted to learn a skilled trade and decided local 440 was something I wanted to do. I started it because we'll I'm just a lazy union hvac/r mechanic that couldn't possibly think past to tomorrow. I'm not sorry I'm offensive I'm not sorry I'm not a republican nor a democrat. What a union used to be was a free standing power that could say no to Saturday and Sunday. A group of people so passionate they would quit their job for their believes.

I repost my thread because what you 144 , who voted on "yes its a good thing", saw was smoke and mirrors. You see now that guns "are a bad thing" and now it's we that are the minority. It's us that are worried about the outcome this group of evil "strong arms" and with our "death machines". Disallowing my rights as an American citizen is a disgrace and I will place an egregious dip spit on the face of anyone who feels taking our rights is morally acceptable.

Patriotic act, right to work, AWB I pledge allegiance to the flag.....

If you don't like my grammar and spelling then f*** you I was blessed with math science and critical thinking

Uh.......what?

 

[1911 DeadHead]

Lets put it into perspective.

Say you join some kind of private club. Be it a gun club or conservation , whatever.
Do they not in turn have you pay membership fees or have you contribute in some means? How would you feel if someone was let into this club and didn't pay or do diddly? And he got all the same perks as someone that does contribute? That to me sums up right to work.

 

[netsecurity]

BIG difference! Right to work is a right granted to you, not taken away. Comparing Right to Work to an AWB is nonsensical.

Unions just want more control because more control means more money for them. There is a breaking point where they make too much money, and the companies have to quit on the unions instead of the other way around, and we past it four years ago--if not in the 80's.

Right to work laws allow companies and employees to ditch the unions if they choose, which allows the company to stay profitable, and KEEPS JOBS IN AMERICA. Union members like you will never see the failure of their logic, because of their own self interest. Look at Hostess. Heck look at what BHO is doing to the entire country--promising benefits to people while taking out loans to pay them! This is absurd and irresponsible, but those people getting the benefits will keep voting YES until we go bankrupt. Yo are on the inside of the union and your perspective is as muddled as those welfare recipients...

Is this type if greed any different than the greed of Wall Street bankers? I don't think so. Greed is destroying this country. In a pure capitalist society greed is good, but when you add in unions, and a tad of socialism, greed becomes a cancer.

 

[netsecurity]

Lets put it into perspective.

Say you join some kind of private club. Be it a gun club or conservation , whatever.
Do they not in turn have you pay membership fees or have you contribute in some means? How would you feel if someone was let into this club and didn't pay or do diddly? And he got all the same perks as someone that does contribute? That to me sums up right to work.

Do they get to use the union's lawyers if they get laid off? Do they get to vote in the union? All they get is equal compensation don't they? How could this be construed as getting union benefits...unless, perhaps you are admitting that union members get substantially higher overall incomes than everyone else?

The right to work laws could've just said that you don't have to join the union, with no other provisions. Well, what if your non union buddy was paid less than you? Then the company would continue to hire people like him, and never hire another union member. Do you get it now? What you are complaining about is what your union begged for, which is equal pay.

 

[SOCOM242]

https://www.indianagunowners.com/forums/general_political_discussion/183055-right_to_work.html

I started that topic for a reason not only because I'm union.It wasn't because I wanted to learn a skilled trade and decided local 440 was something I wanted to do. I started it because we'll I'm just a lazy union hvac/r mechanic that couldn't possibly think past to tomorrow. I'm not sorry I'm offensive I'm not sorry I'm not a republican nor a democrat. What a union used to be was a free standing power that could say no to Saturday and Sunday. A group of people so passionate they would quit their job for their believes.

I repost my thread because what you 144 , who voted on "yes its a good thing", saw was smoke and mirrors. You see now that guns "are a bad thing" and now it's we that are the minority. It's us that are worried about the outcome this group of evil "strong arms" and with our "death machines". Disallowing my rights as an American citizen is a disgrace and I will place an egregious dip spit on the face of anyone who feels taking our rights is morally acceptable.

Patriotic act, right to work, AWB I pledge allegiance to the flag.....

If you don't like my grammar and spelling then f*** you I was blessed with math science and critical thinking

I'm sorry, but I'm not quite sure what you're trying to say...

 

[Hohn]

Can't follow the post at all. Definitely NOT blessed with basic English composition. Appears not blessed with logical thinking. Cant say whether you are blessed with math or science skills.

You read my mind.



Best I can tell, he's trying to draw some kind of parallel between RTW and AWB?


But he's got it backwards. RTW is about liberty. Opposing the AWB is also about liberty. Not sure how he gets to his conclusion without arriving at my own conclusions consistent with the quote above.

JMO

 

[LANShark42]

Can't follow the post at all. Definitely NOT blessed with basic English composition. Appears not blessed with logical thinking. Cant say whether you are blessed with math or science skills.

^^^^This

 

[KLB]

Where are all of the unions that have been busted because of this?

 

[Bunnykid68]

My biggest problem with unions is that they think people DESERVE $15-20 an hour for something you could train a 13 year old to do in a day. Let people compete for their jobs. The company should be able to hire me for $3 an hour less if I am willing to do the same job with the same quality and not forced to pay everyone the same amount.

 

[phylodog]

Freedom of choice.

If you want to be part of a union you should be allowed to do so. If you don't want to be part of a union you should be allowed not to. The playing field is now level.

If you are a part of a union and it is sooooo great, you shouldn't have a difficult time convincing those who aren't to join. If you cannot see the logic in this I don't know what can be done to help you.

 

[Hohn]

Here's what's ironic:

RTW is the most pro-union legislation that could ever be passed-- IF a union is what it claims to be.


Think about it for a second. In a perfectly free market, the wage you command as a laborer is dependent not only upon your skills and the supply/demand for that, but on your own individual intangibles. How safe is the work? How steady is it? Are the people kind to me? A better work experience in terms of safety, professionalism, comfort etc is worth more money, all else being equal.

What that means is that a "better" job would pay less, not more in terms of actual wage because the rest of the pay shows up as the intangibles. It's sort of like benefits. If you have fantastic benefits, then 60K year can be mighty fine, while 100K year with no benefits can be much worse.

Two guys work the exact same desk job with the exact same qualifications and skill at the exact same company, but one guy gets an office chair 10x more comfortable than the other. He will accept a slightly lower wage because that nicer chair is part of his compensation.


How does this relate to a union and RTW? Well, if a union is truly taking care of its people and providing them real benefits and such that they find worthwhile, then the wage of the union worker would be LOWER-- not higher-- than the non unionized counterpart.

This would give the union a competitive advantage against the non-union labor.



Let's make another comparison to illustrate. Let's say that "equal pay" laws go into effect forcing women and men to be paid exactly the same for the same work and same skill. (overriding the market and each individual's actual negotiating ability). Let's say you have a business and want to hire only men. Let's say you have a competitor that is willing to hire men and women both.

What will the respective labor costs of the men-only business and the coed business be? Well, since the law says equal pay, they would be the same. In other words, the all-male business bears no cost penalty at all for being "chauvinist pigs."

Compare that to a free labor market where the all-male business would have HIGHER labor costs (if women are truly underpaid). In a free market, you can only be a chauvinist or a racist or whatever if you are willing to pay more for it! You end up punishing bad behavior with economic forces. Laws that force "equality" remove the price of discrimination.

What happens when you reward sexism or racism by removing the price of it? You get more of it.


So RTW is very pro-union because it punishes businesses that hire non-union labor by making them bear a cost to do so, IF the union is a better option for the laborers.


In reality, it ends up showing that unions aren't about sticking it to the man, they are about sticking it to other workers, and using the gov't to do so. The business is going to have to pay whatever the market rate is. By refusing to let people work for less money, you keep them from getting job skills, increase unemployment, and pull down wages for others (which is another post).

H