A theoretical question, --- your opinion please?

[bd1024]

A theoretical situation, -- A 65 year old man is at a fast food restaurant, some young man, (or men) cut in front of him in line. He tells them to get in line like everyone else, at which time they begin harassing and threatening him. ---- As the older man leaves the restaurant, he is followed by the younger men, pushed, and punched, etc...... The older man who is legally carrying a weapon, feeling that he life is threatened, pulls his gun and shoots one of the "punks" ---- Has he committed a crime? is he going to jail, or was he justified in his actions? ---- The younger men were not armed with a gun, ---- Your opinion please? ---- Thanks

 

[Kirk Freeman]

feeling that he life is threatened

How is that reasonable?

 

[GodFearinGunTotin]

It would depend on the details, what was said, the particular actions of the "punks", the physical fitness of the "65 year old man", and things of that sort...in other words whatever they could convince a jury of.

 

[pudly]

Disparity of force would be the justification here. Multiple younger, presumably stronger men attacking you, means that a reasonable man might believe that they are at risk of death or great bodily harm. Therefore, lethal force might be justified. Additional details might change the answer, but given only these details, likely okay.

I recommend Guy's Comprehensive Indiana Gun Laws class. You will understand these issues much better.

 

[17 squirrel]

What State is this happening in ?

Is there a duty to retreat in that State ??

That's my answer for starters..

 

[Rocketscientist]

I'm no expert on the matter, but from everything I've been taught in the world of weapons and self-defense, a fist can most certainly be considered a lethal weapon. A 20-something who is quick and powerful vs. a frail old man could qualify. Or, for instance two guys of the same age, but one a muscle bound roid-rager vs. the other skinny guy, 100lbs soakin wet.. Big difference in size and ability, as well as level of fear of injury.

 

[sharpetop]

What State is this happening in ?

Is there a duty to retreat in that State ??

That's my answer for starters..

The 65 y/o left the restaurant. Wouldn't that be retreating? They followed him out, if I read things correctly. I'm thinking disparity of force here, although the prosecutor may have other ideas.

 

[jbombelli]

He's an old man and they're ganging up and putting their hands on him.

If I'm on his jury he won't he convicted.

 

[throttletony]

If it's as you say it is, and there are witnesses. .. justified

 

[SteveM4A1]

Since when is 65 old and frail? I know plenty of 65 year olds that would whoop my butt

 

[Rocketscientist]

Since when is 65 old and frail? I know plenty of 65 year olds that would whoop my butt

True that! I know plenty of frail 20 year olds who, if the roles were reversed, would have just as much justification in defending themselves with a firearm.. Besides, isn't Schwarzenegger around 70 these days? I guess it all boils down to means and ability to carry out a threat no matter who you are.

 

[Sticky]

...He's an old man and they're ganging up and putting their hands on him.

If I'm on his jury he won't he convicted.

Same as the above.

The old guy tried to disengage. Multiple assailants pursued and began an assault. Hands can be a deadly weapon.

 

[Bennettjh]

If it's as you say it is, and there are witnesses. .. justified

My thoughts as well.

 

[Gluemanz28]

The older guy (notice I didn't say old man ) should have thrown his gun to the ground and stomped it. The gun would have went off and shot two of the tires on the ruthless punks truck. They would have retreated in fear of the older dudes skills.

If the prosecutor doesn't like the older guys methods, he can make him carry a wooden gun for a week.

Oh and........ If you weren't there to witness this, it's Nunya Bizness Anyhoo

 

[Sylvain]

Well he's going to jail no matter what ...

It's not like in the movies where the cops just tell you it was a good f=shot and let you walk away with your gun.

 

[yepthatsme]

Well he's going to jail no matter what ...

It's not like in the movies where the cops just tell you it was a good f=shot and let you walk away with your gun.

^^^^^^ This ^^^^^^ He just bought himself a free ride to jail. And if the prosecutor thinks that he might have a winnable case against the old man, he will definitely bring him up on charges. The old man better hope that all of the witnesses are honest and in his favor. All it would take is for a witness or two to state that he didn't need to use his weapon to possibly sink his self defense case.

 

[BehindBlueI's]

Well he's going to jail no matter what ...

It's not like in the movies where the cops just tell you it was a good f=shot and let you walk away with your gun.

No, he's not going to jail no matter what. I've been on the scene of a self defense shooting where the prosecutor cleared the shooter before the shooter even gave a statement. You won't be leaving with your gun, which is evidence, but you may very well get to walk away.

As to the OP - it depends. There is no blanket answer and the details will determine if it's a good shoot, questionable shoot, or bad shoot.

 

[Bill of Rights]

No, he's not going to jail no matter what. I've been on the scene of a self defense shooting where the prosecutor cleared the shooter before the shooter even gave a statement. You won't be leaving with your gun, which is evidence, but you may very well get to walk away.

As to the OP - it depends. There is no blanket answer and the details will determine if it's a good shoot, questionable shoot, or bad shoot.

This has never made sense to me. With forensics being what they are, take the gun, snap every picture conceivable, hell, make a computer model and 3D render it, but give it back to the guy who may need it tonight more than ever.

The take-away from this is: Own more than one handgun.

Oh, and to address the OP, while I won't say what I'd do on a jury as I don't have the facts to judge at this time, I would be surprised if any defense attorney worth his salt would not bring disparity of force into the fray and allow that to be a consideration that the jury could ponder.

From the story provided, and recognizing the one-sidedness of it, the youngsters went wrong when they turned to harass their elder.

A man of a certain age did not get there by being the most feminine portion of a woman's anatomy, nor by being a fool. If he was willing to speak up to them, they would have been wise to pay heed.

Seldom are twenty-something males in a group properly considered to be wise. Wise-asses, perhaps, but not wise.

I wish good fortune to the aforementioned man of a certain age, and wisdom to the remaining members of the group of young males, along with the hope that the latter will at some point be worthy of being called "men".

Blessings,
Bill

 

[BehindBlueI's]

This has never made sense to me. With forensics being what they are, take the gun, snap every picture conceivable, hell, make a computer model and 3D render it, but give it back to the guy who may need it tonight more than ever.

The take-away from this is: Own more than one handgun.

Oh, and to address the OP, while I won't say what I'd do on a jury as I don't have the facts to judge at this time, I would be surprised if any defense attorney worth his salt would not bring disparity of force into the fray and allow that to be a consideration that the jury could ponder.

From the story provided, and recognizing the one-sidedness of it, the youngsters went wrong when they turned to harass their elder.

A man of a certain age did not get there by being the most feminine portion of a woman's anatomy, nor by being a fool. If he was willing to speak up to them, they would have been wise to pay heed.

Seldom are twenty-something males in a group properly considered to be wise. Wise-asses, perhaps, but not wise.

I wish good fortune to the aforementioned man of a certain age, and wisdom to the remaining members of the group of young males, along with the hope that the latter will at some point be worthy of being called "men".

Blessings,
Bill

Pictures can't be test fired and compared to bullets inside the bad guy, which will corroborate your story.

 

[Rocketscientist]

An excellent article from USCCA, if interested... It seems to cover just about all of the above.

https://www.usconcealedcarry.com/disparity-of-force/