AAR: INGO Box of Truth, June 19 2010

[dubsac]

That wasn't even the "real" range.

*kicks self for not being able to be there*

Will be get to see the real range at NFA day????

 

[OEF5]

Wow I see photos now

Ok so after reading the geeky post let me throw this out there;

I'll use my house and bedroom for this specific example, if a bad guy breaks into my house and I'm in the bed room down the hall from the living room (only doors to the house are the main door and kitchen door) I won't be shooting straight through a wall, I would be taking cover behind the wall in my bed room and shooting at an angle down the hall to the right. I would then have to go through studs and dry wall of 2 walls and a corner at about 20 degrees or less.

I guess what I'm trying to get at is this, Aside from the fact that the tests show what different things do through drywall and how much penetration you get, what about angles added to it?

Please don't think I am dissing any of this work, its awesome stuff and data and helpful in looking at what to use for home defense rounds. I just don't see any situation where you would be shooting at a right angle to any surface in your house and only be going through walls at 90 degrees.

Does that make sense to anyone else lol?

 

[esrice]

Will be get to see the real range at NFA day????

Yes, NFA Day is held on the "real" range.

The place that they used for the INGO B.O.T. was on the other side of the lake, where we usually place steel targets that are shot from 200yrds away.

 

[Chefcook]

This is full of win, great job guys what an awesome time this looked to be, reps are inevitable. What are your plans for future tests? I would love to see how Glazer safety slugs preform. Another idea that might be interesting would be to like the Mythbusters get a pig and hang it in front of the box O truth, testing how far the rounds will penetrate after scoring a hit on a bad guy. I would be more than willing to offer my services and donate funds or ammo to the cause...

 

[techres]

Does that make sense to anyone else lol?

It makes perfect sense and it was discussed during the initial planning meetings including the one at Jiffy Treat (mmm....)

We discussed the angling of media but decided that we did not have time, nor was the box setup for angling.

Now, one of the things we hoped for in this project was getting people interested in careful, planned, and recorded testing of their own. Your rig need not be able to withstand a terrorist melon attack, but there needs to be some level of control in method as well as thought.

Go, do, have a ball. Get movies and pictures. Post the threads.

Another possibility would be a second "Test" day, and that has also begun to be discussed.

 

[Chefcook]

It makes perfect sense and it was discussed during the initial planning meetings including the one at Jiffy Treat (mmm....)

We discussed the angling of media but decided that we did not have time, nor was the box setup for angling.

Now, one of the things we hoped for in this project was getting people interested in careful, planned, and recorded testing of their own. Your rig need not be able to withstand a terrorist melon attack, but there needs to be some level of control in method as well as thought.

Go, do, have a ball. Get movies and pictures. Post the threads.

Another possibility would be a second "Test" day, and that has also begun to be discussed.

If this in fact comes off I would love to attend. I am fairly certain I have some connections where I can acquire some different target media at a very reasonable cost...

 

[Joe Williams]

Thanks for the work, guys! The .22 vs drywall test was particularly enlightening for Sean. He's seen fruit and stuff blown up, but I don't think he properly respected it's ability against, say, house walls.

If you are taking some requests, next time how bout 125gr GDHP, some Golden Sabers, some PDX1s, and some 158gr LSWCs. Cathy has put in a request for .380 next time. We don't mind spending your ammo money

 

[esrice]

We should get lovemywoods to build a very small 1-room house, complete with studs, insulation, drywall, siding, windows, doors, shingles (everything to code, of course) and even little Cindy Lou Who, and then shoot THAT up!

 

[esrice]

We don't mind spending your ammo money

Careful, Joe. . . . that's MY job!

 

[techres]

We should get lovemywoods to build a very small 1-room house, complete with studs, insulation, drywall, siding, windows, doors, shingles (everything to code, of course) and even little Cindy Lou Who, and then shoot THAT up!

Now, hold on there. Just hold on. Hmmm....




(Man, it is so easy to dream about what to do with other people's property!)

 

[OEF5]

It makes perfect sense and it was discussed during the initial planning meetings including the one at Jiffy Treat (mmm....)

We discussed the angling of media but decided that we did not have time, nor was the box setup for angling.

Now, one of the things we hoped for in this project was getting people interested in careful, planned, and recorded testing of their own. Your rig need not be able to withstand a terrorist melon attack, but there needs to be some level of control in method as well as thought.

Go, do, have a ball. Get movies and pictures. Post the threads.

Another possibility would be a second "Test" day, and that has also begun to be discussed.

Now why on earth would I want to do your tests for you! Other than getting to shoot stuff! Maybe I can try to build some stuff and bring it down for you guys to shoot up!

This is your goat, I'm just holding the rope.....

 

[esrice]

(Man, it is so easy to dream about what to do with other people's property!)

See above note to Joe.

 

[dak109]

Great job!
If you are interested I can provide 357 revolvers in short barrel configurations, and some ammo. 110-158g.

This goes a long with a thread I started about comparing short barrel 357 and 3.5-4 inch 9mm.

Like I said I will be more than willing to supply the 357's and ammo.

 

[Squib]

Looks like you were having way too much fun to be scientific.

 

[rockydog]

CCG, I appreciate your comments and have given it some thought. Forgive me if I get a bit geeky, but you should be used to it being surrounded by tekkies at your workplace.

You are suggesting a full-width mock-up of a wall to test the drywall at the center (and assumed weakest point). I don't think that the structural strength of the drywall is what matters here. If I was punching through the drywall with a large and slow-moving object (say a fist), then the full-sized model would be necessary. However, with a fast-moving bullet, I believe the bullet passes through the drywall before the internal structure of the drywall has a chance to react to any significant degree. The large mass and inertia of the drywall at rest would tend to remain at rest. Only the structural characteristics of the drywall directly in the path of the bullet matter. Therefore, I believe the drywall would behave the same whether the impact was 8" from a stud or right next to the stud. If that is the case, the size of the drywall sample has little affect on the test.

Just my musings with no hard data to back it up.

I do like the suggestion one member offered to mock up some layers of insulation along with a brick or block outer wall.

Yup, you are correct LMW, If width had any noticable effect on the test, you would see the damage or transfer of force on the edges of the drywall where they aren't really connected but only slipped in the slots.

 

[lovemywoods]

Yup, you are correct LMW, If width had any noticable effect on the test, you would see the damage or transfer of force on the edges of the drywall where they aren't really connected but only slipped in the slots.

Good point! We saw no damage, cracking, or scratches on the drywall boards as we changed them out.

 

[ak keep the second]

This is really cool, i bet it was fun to video and shoot!

 

[lovemywoods]

The INGO Box of Truth has be repaired!

The BOX is back, ready for action!

It only took a bit of glue and a few screws along with two new 'teeth' for one rail. [Note to self....Don't blow stuff up on top of the INGO BOT!]

 

[techres]

The BOX is back, ready for action!

It only took a bit of glue and a few screws along with two new 'teeth' for one rail. [Note to self....Don't blow stuff up on top of the INGO BOT!]

Sweet! Like Lazarus from the grave!

Now that it is working again, it sure looks like it needs to be filled with stuff and used....

 

[tuoder]

Now that it is working again, it sure looks like it needs to be filled with stuff and used....

I have a dirty, dirty mind.