Accidental Discharge, Close Range, Birdshot, Graphic Photos

[BrettonJudy7]

You guys never disappoint

I scrolled down purposefully just to find this comment here.

 

[M67]

The end of the barrel was what, maybe 6 inches from his shoulder? Hey if you want to use bird loads and wait until your attacker get within 6 inches of you be my guess.

A number of years ago I was curious what birdshot would do at close range (10yards on in)

I had a completely soaked piece ok for plywood, a yard behind that a sheet of drywall, and 3 yards behind that some railroad ties as a backstop.

With a full choke and number 7 shot, the shot pattern on the plywood was maybe 5" wide, punched through that and the drywall and some pellets still had enough energy to stick in the railroad ties, but not by much

End story was that birdshot is more devastating at close range than people give it credit for

 

[BehindBlueI's]

So you're removing a shotgun from a trunk and the barrel is pointed at your left shoulder. That would indicate you are using your right hand to pull it out by the barrel. The "jack handle" gets stuck in the trigger guard and it fires. So the gun is stored loaded, not on safe, doesn't fire while driving home, so the jack handle didn't enter the equation until he went to remove it. Mimicking the actions I can sort of see how the barrel would be pointed at the shoulder to fire into the area the surgeon cut, which *might* explain the lack of corresponding injuries to a lot of the shot, it stopped just under the skin from inside the muscle (skin is tougher then people give it credit for). If it was nearly touching his skin the gas would drive the shot much further then it normally would if the shot entered through unbroken skin like it normally would. That has to be a contact or near contact wound, which would also explain why the shot in the bottom of the picture is only along the bone. It hit bone and rode it down. Also how the shotcup was forced in.

I'm not 100% convinced, but the wound pattern is at least plausible with his story.

End story was that birdshot is more devastating at close range than people give it credit for

That has not been my experience with people shot. "Annoying" would be a much more accurate descriptor.

 

[russc2542]

Exactly. How far out is a bird on average when you touch off one. It is a heck of a lot farther the 6"s.
I wonder how much damage the expanding gases added to all of this at that range.

albeit not a shotgun but there are plenty of vids on YT of blanks and fruit.

 

[BigBoxaJunk]

I had picked up some INGO chamber flags at the 1500 a couple of years ago, and I started using them at the range, mostly to let others see from a distance that a gun on a bench or rack was safe. Now I'm in the habit of putting a chamber flag in any gun that I fire at the range, after I'm done firing it, and the chamber flag stays in until I get the gun home.

Even so, I'd never want to transport a gun in a vehicle unless it was in a case, or wrapped in a cloth, to prevent unnecessary scratches if for no other reason. If there's a jack handle next to the gun, it could just as easily be tapping little scratches in the receiver at every bump in the road.

 

[Hardheadjarhead]

Ah. The birdshot in self defense controversy springs up.

When this comes up it seems people invariably post a "Box O' Truth" link, sagely repeat "Birdshot is for little birds", and provide an anecdote of somebody shot with birdshot who survived and fought on. It also always ends up being something like #8, and the ranges always seem to be in a home I'll never be able to afford.

I've posted it elsewhere, but I'm using birdshot. I've got kids in the condo next to me and the one beyond that. IF in the unlikely event someone breaks in to my home in my low crime area, and IF I'm able to get to the that shotgun in time, and IF I shoot him with #4 at the fifteen feet or less range that I've measured out in my unit, and IF he doesn't respond to the shots to the face (and eyes) and testes I've given him and neither drops or flees in fear because he apparently is (to hear tell on forums) invariably going to be Captain Courageous, and IF I don't get a chance to cave his skull with the stock or cut his throat with one of the knives I've got at hand or beat him with my bare hands until the candy comes out of his head...

Then I suppose I'll likely die.

But I'm not going to shoot through walls and into those kids if I can help it. Ain't going to happen.

 

[BehindBlueI's]

But I'm not going to shoot through walls and into those kids if I can help it. Ain't going to happen.

Anything that will penetrate to the vitals of a man will penetrate dry wall. The answer isn't too purposefully select less lethal and rely on pain compliance. This is a software problem, not a hardware one. You live there. You prep the battle ground. Bookcases and heavy furniture make nice backstops. Know your angles and remember it's a 3D world. You can take a knee and aim upward, for example.

I can mitigate the risk of a miss. I've no way to influence where the bullets from a dying but not dead burglar pulling the trigger goes. I want him down and disable as fast as possible, and again, anything that will mechanically stop him will go through dry wall...not a hardware problem.

 

[ECS686]

So you're removing a shotgun from a trunk and the barrel is pointed at your left shoulder. That would indicate you are using your right hand to pull it out by the barrel. The "jack handle" gets stuck in the trigger guard and it fires. So the gun is stored loaded, not on safe, doesn't fire while driving home, so the jack handle didn't enter the equation until he went to remove it. Mimicking the actions I can sort of see how the barrel would be pointed at the shoulder to fire into the area the surgeon cut, which *might* explain the lack of corresponding injuries to a lot of the shot, it stopped just under the skin from inside the muscle (skin is tougher then people give it credit for). If it was nearly touching his skin the gas would drive the shot much further then it normally would if the shot entered through unbroken skin like it normally would. That has to be a contact or near contact wound, which would also explain why the shot in the bottom of the picture is only along the bone. It hit bone and rode it down. Also how the shotcup was forced in.

I'm not 100% convinced, but the wound pattern is at least plausible with his story.



That has not been my experience with people shot. "Annoying" would be a much more accurate descriptor.

^^^THIS^^^

Sorry for the guy and obviously the SIL is a tool but the guy should have made sure HIS own gun was cleared before taking it back (in any case but if the SIL is missing a finger from a different firearm misdeed) sorry but it's pretty much on you, dinner waiting on you or not.

Wonder how Thanksgiving Dinner will go from this point on?

 

[ru44mag]

The SIL may be an idiot, but I was always taught, and teach younger shooters the most important thing is never point the gun at anything you are not planning to shoot. Or at least point the gun in a safe direction. WHY would anyone remove a firearm from a trunk with the barrel pointed at themselves?!?!?

 

[BehindBlueI's]

The SIL may be an idiot, but I was always taught, and teach younger shooters the most important thing is never point the gun at anything you are not planning to shoot. Or at least point the gun in a safe direction. WHY would anyone remove a firearm from a trunk with the barrel pointed at themselves?!?!?

Because, deep down, they believe "it will never happen to me". Same reason few people really take self-defense training seriously. They don't *really* think it could happen to them, it's just a neat "what if" game to play.

 

[Kirk Freeman]

The SIL may be an idiot, but I was always taught, and teach younger shooters the most important thing is never point the gun at anything you are not planning to shoot. Or at least point the gun in a safe direction. WHY would anyone remove a firearm from a trunk with the barrel pointed at themselves?!?!?

*Is Freeman going to tell the tangelo story again?* Pffft, of course he is.

So, one fine Saturday morning, I am teaching at Wildcat. I have the 10AM-Noon slot on legalities of buying and selling guns, and carrying.

I arrive early and sit in the back. I pull out a tangelo that I brought and to start the peeling, I produce my Sypderco Endura II (medium size, heavy knife) and open it snap style.

The sound bounces off the tile floor and metal chairs, as a unit, the entire class snaps their heads back to look at me. Eyes wide open and a few of them are monkey hooting.

Why do people act so blase around firearms? Because relatively few have shot themselves, but we have ALL cut ourselves, usually in the kitchen.

After my segment, I stuck around to watch the class on the range. Let's just say the gunhandling was less than optimal. Why? Because no one had shot themselves.

 

[ru44mag]

*Is Freeman going to tell the tangelo story again?* Pffft, of course he is.

So, one fine Saturday morning, I am teaching at Wildcat. I have the 10AM-Noon slot on legalities of buying and selling guns, and carrying.

I arrive early and sit in the back. I pull out a tangelo that I brought and to start the peeling, I produce my Sypderco Endura II (medium size, heavy knife) and open it snap style.

The sound bounces off the tile floor and metal chairs, as a unit, the entire class snaps their heads back to look at me. Eyes wide open and a few of them are monkey hooting.

Why do people act so blase around firearms? Because relatively few have shot themselves, but we have ALL cut ourselves, usually in the kitchen.

After my segment, I stuck around to watch the class on the range. Let's just say the gunhandling was less than optimal. Why? Because no one had shot themselves.

Maybe I should mark this thread and force everyone I take out to shoot, to look at this thread prior to handling a firearm. Like they say, a picture is worth a thousand words.

 

[singlesix]

Maybe I should mark this thread and force everyone I take out to shoot, to look at this thread prior to handling a firearm. Like they say, a picture is worth a thousand words.

Nah, I remember the films I was forced to watch in Driver's ED in H.S.; Blood on the Highway, etc. Did teenagers still do stupid things in cars, yes.

 

[BehindBlueI's]

Maybe I should mark this thread and force everyone I take out to shoot, to look at this thread prior to handling a firearm. Like they say, a picture is worth a thousand words.

It only happens to "them" and will never happen to me. I'll never make a mistake. They are dumb and I am smart.

 

[Kirk Freeman]

Maybe I should mark this thread and force everyone I take out to shoot, to look at this thread prior to handling a firearm. Like they say, a picture is worth a thousand words.

"Eye been around gunz all meye lie-if!"

The first step in getting help is admitting you have a problem. Just what percentage of the population is going to do so?

Everyone wants to change the world, no one wants to change themselves.

Of course I have a solution, don't I always? Make training an above the line tax deduction so people have an incentive to train.

 

[HoughMade]

You guys never disappoint

...and by "never", what you truly mean is "always".

...Let's just say the gunhandling was less than optimal. Why? Because no one had shot themselves.

I think this makes it clear that there is only one way to train for optimal gun handling.

 

[Kirk Freeman]

...and by "never", what you truly mean is "always".



I think this makes it clear that there is only one way to train for optimal gun handling.

*drums fingers on desk*

Going to make me quote Bismarck, aren't you?

 

[searpinski]

What's a left finger? A clip? The writing is horrendous.

 

[OakRiver]

Terrible writing aside, and the inevitable "I believe in the 2A, but...", who is the bigger idiot here; Idiot 1 who stowed the weapon, or Idiot 2 who relied on Idiot 1 knowing that he couldn't be trusted?