Accidental Discharge...or Negligent?

[Greg.B]

Seems the Owensboro police department is getting some further news coverage (they had an EBR stolen previously). At least no one was injured!

OPD officer's gun accidentally fired - 14 News, The Tri-State's News and Weather Leader-

OWENSBORO, KY (WFIE) - Police went to an Owensboro home on Wednesday searching for narcotics.
While inside the house, police say an officer's gun accidentally fired.
"Our street crimes unit was serving a search warrant when a weapon was accidentally discharged," Owensboro Police Officer Marian Cosgrove said. "Whether it be an accidental discharge or an intentional discharge of a firearm we always start an internal investigation."
Cosgrove says the officer had the gun in hand when it fired.
Police say officers carry a Glock like this one.
A Google search about Glock shows this is not the first time an officer has accidentally fired a Glock.
Glock's do not have a safety switch on them like many other pistols.

"It's not like even if it had a safety switch like a Smith and Wesson might have, we wouldn't have it on safe anyway so things like this happen but if the officer is found negligent it will be handled accordingly," Cosgrove said.
But that doesn't mean they're not safe.
The gun does have what's called a double action trigger.
"Once your finger is right on the trigger where it needs to be when you fire the gun then it will shoot," Frank Miller and Sons spokesperson Chris Miller said.
Most law enforcement officers prefer Glock.
"All our law enforcement here locally use them, police department, the state police and Daviess County Sheriff's Department," Miller said. "They're all using the gun because it is so dependable and very, very accurate."
"They are very dependable and reliable," Cosgrove said. "They can be submerged in water and still fire. That's the reason we carry Glock."
Owensboro police say they switched to Glock about five years ago, and says this is the first time that an officer has accidentally fired his or her weapon since the switch.

 

[ATM]

The more they talk about the Glocks reliability, the more negligent the operator seems.

Almost always negligence though.

 

[groovatron]

I would need alot more information to make that determination. I would be willing to bet that it was accidental. Now negligent.?.....it depends on what happened. And this article goes into zero detail about that.

 

[jeremy]

Did the Firearms malfunction?! That is an accidental...

Did the moron have have his bugger picker on the bang switch?! That is a negligent....

As much as it pains me to say it (I despise Glocks) their reliability and track record leads me to believe it is probably a ND...

 

[Joe Williams]

If he didn't intend to fire a shot, it's negligence. His finger did not belong on the trigger. Only way it's not an ND is if the gun fired itself. What are the odds of that?

 

[phylodog]

I have never seen a documented case where a Glock fired a round without someone's finger being on the trigger. They have been dropped off of two story buildings, landing on the rear of the slide and the end of the barrel and they didn't fire.

If it went off, someone pulled the trigger. If it was not a conscious decision then at best I would call it an unintentional discharge. It is not an accidental and pretty hard to argue that it isn't negligent. This kind of thing happens when people get complacent with firearms.

 

[INGunGuy]

If he didn't intend to fire a shot, it's negligence. His finger did not belong on the trigger. Only way it's not an ND is if the gun fired itself. What are the odds of that?

Absolutely correct! NEVER, EVER, EVER have your finger on the trigger unless you are READY to fire, then and ONLY THEN can you put that nasty bugger picker on the trigger...

I despise to hear about these kinds of things happening because it is almost always a negligent discharge since guns dont just fire themselves. And for the rare occurrence of a accidental discharge that happens with a free floating firing pin found in military rifles.

If the officer is found to have negligently discharged the firearm, IMHO, they should go thru a MANDATORY 12 month probationary period with intense training on the proper handling of firearms. Then pass a proficiency test using real-world scenarios on a live fire course. If they prove they are capable of controlling and handling a firearm then they will be allowed to carry on duty again.

INGunGuy

 

[38special]

A Google search about Glock shows this is not the first time an officer has accidentally fired a Glock.
Glock's do not have a safety switch on them like many other pistols.

This part irritates me. 65% of police forces in the US use Glocks. Naturally this won't be the first OR the last time there's an accidental/negligent discharge. Blaming the lack of an external safety (or implying it at least) is ridiculous.

I'm glad the officer responded the way he did. People who write these articles have so little knowledge about the subject they're writing about.

 

[Hornett]

I agree with you 38Special.
At least they did say that if it was a S&W it wouldn't be on safe anyway.

This irritated me.

The gun does have what's called a double action trigger.
"Once your finger is right on the trigger where it needs to be when you fire the gun then it will shoot," Frank Miller and Sons spokesperson Chris Miller said.

Glocks aren't double action! They are striker fired.
Glock calls it a "Safe Action Trigger System".
Either that 'spokesman' was misquoted or they need a new spokesman.

 

[BE Mike]

Anytime a firearm is unintentionally discharged while in the immediate control of an individual, it is negligence. There are firearm accidents, but they are very rare and usually because the guns were left loaded when they shouldn't be (negligence again). I've had a couple of negligent discharges, but fortunately they were on a shooting range and the round went harmlessly downrange.

I've seen accidental discharges. One that comes to mind is a fellow cleaned and oiled a .38 spl derringer. He loaded it (a home defense weapon), and was placing it on a top shelf of a closet. The oily derringer slipped from his grasp. Fell on the floor and landed hammer first. The pistol discharged and the round struck him between the legs and stopped about 6" into his abdomen. He survived.

 

[Greg.B]

Glocks aren't double action! They are striker fired.
Glock calls it a "Safe Action Trigger System".
Either that 'spokesman' was misquoted or they need a new spokesman.

Nope that's it word for word from the interview that was on TV. That was one of the things that stuck out to me too!

 

[ATM]

The double action trigger comment is not shown as a quote from anyone.
Looks like the reporter was just making up some filler "facts."

 

[yotewacker]

The safety on a gun can go both ways. I had officers tell me that in a fast thinking reaction decision, such as a gun battle. Officers have forgot to release the safety and in the heated rush, start to assume the gun is jammed and stop, tap, rack and reload. when all it needs is the safety released. But on the other hand I've been told that officers have had there guns taken from them and the trigger squeezed, but no discharge, because the safety was on. thus giving the officer a couple of valuable seconds to regain control of his firearm.
But if these guys were doing a warrant. I'm sure all safeties would have been off anyways.

 

[Kirk Freeman]

Only way it's not an ND is if the gun fired itself. What are the odds of that?

because it is almost always a negligent discharge since guns dont just fire themselves.

Not to pick any nits and I certainly do not what happened, but guns can go bang when you do not want them to while no fingers are on triggers.

All guns, but especially those with inertia firing pins, can discharge while being loaded and unloaded. I have seen cops who, for some silly reason, jack with their guns as if they are media trained. They continually load and unload.

The pistol could have discharged while being unloaded or loaded while in the house. This gets very exciting. Mine was with an 870 shotgun while loading.

Remember, the Four Rules light is always on, even if we are "just" loading or unloading.

This is why I always get short of breath when I am told to "just unload in the parking lot" (and what shoot my car, my fellow shooters, passing traffic?).

Something to keep in mind.

 

[holejack1]

No question about it in my mind. There's no way to make a glock fire without pressing the go button. What was done to make that happen is omitted from the story however.

 

[LEaSH]

...The pistol discharged and the round struck him between the legs and stopped about 6" into his abdomen. He survived.

I think you've just put me off derringers forever. Poor fella.

 

[Kirk Freeman]

There's no way to make a glock fire without pressing the go button

Yes there is, you can load or unload it.

One that comes to mind is a fellow cleaned and oiled a .38 spl derringer. He loaded it (a home defense weapon), and was placing it on a top shelf of a closet. The oily derringer slipped from his grasp. Fell on the floor and landed hammer first. The pistol discharged and the round struck him between the legs and stopped about 6" into his abdomen. He survived

Yes, guns can fire when dropped, maybe this happened here (or he dropped it and tried to catch it, who knows)?

Remember the gun writer Steve Malloy, wrote for SWAT. He had a 1911 fall out of his waistband (carrying "Mexican") and the weapon discharged into his chest.

Ezz gon, ezz not safe.

 

[LEaSH]

Poor maintenance, lack of inspection, all those things that can make a firearm discharge unintentionally (without ever touching the trigger), somebody is negligent indirectly.

If it's not the operator it's the armorer.

I guess I'd like to see people take responsibility rather than shrug it off and point to the firearm for being the cause. Someone is responsible for the condition and functioning of any given firearm.

 

[phylodog]

Yes there is, you can load or unload it.

I'd like to see any documented evidence of a Glock doing this. On a properly functioning Glock the firing pin block safety prevents the firing pin from striking the primer unless the trigger has been pulled to the rear. As I stated before Glocks have been dropped from two story buildings onto concrete, landing on both the muzzle and the rear of the slide and would not discharge.

The only issue with repeatedly loading and unloading a Glock is the possibility for the bullets to set back into the case thereby increasing pressure when that round is fired and causing a possible kaboom.

If it were possible for the Glock to discharge while loading or unloading there is still no reason for an officer to be unloading a pistol in a residence during the course of a search warrant unless there is a firefight and he/she is reloading.

 

[Mr. Habib]

I have never seen a documented case where a Glock fired a round without someone's finger being on the trigger. They have been dropped off of two story buildings, landing on the rear of the slide and the end of the barrel and they didn't fire.

No question about it in my mind. There's no way to make a glock fire without pressing the go button. What was done to make that happen is omitted from the story however.

You might want to read this.