Age limit to buy a shotgun?

[Mgderf]

I know, I was trying to be funny, guess I missed the mark.......

"It ain't easy bein' cheesy"

 

[flatlander]

THIS. I refuse to buy a gun at a big box store. (well, unless I see its a black friday loss leader. Then I buy it there and NOTHING else LOL)

They all refuse to follow the law, which states that they MAY release a firearm on a delay if they dont get a deny in 3 business days. (just for 21+ now) NICS often doesnt even bother to contact the FFL except for explicit denies because they assume it will be released. At least RK and Dicks (when they sold guns) would not release a firearm without an explicit PROCEED. I talked to a guy at Dicks once who said he had a guy that never could buy a gun. He'd always get a DELAY. But since NICS would never call Dicks back with the PROCEED, they would never release it. And every time they'd re-run the check, they'd get a DELAY. I think the guy said he tried every few weeks for over a month before he gave up.

Again with the hate for stores. They are following the law just as you quoted it. The thing you have to remember is that as a corporation they have a lot to lose if a gun leaves without a proceed.

If it gets released according to your interpretation and then the FFL gets contacted that it's a DENY then what? Oh yeah that's right, you have to contact a now armed customer and attempt to get the firearm back. You also get to contact the local LEO and say can you get this gun back? I refuse to put anybody in that situation for your convenience.

I refused 3 people the other day myself. Two for bad ID (That's never been refused at LGS) and the other I deemed a straw purchase attempt. We don't need or want the ATF to have any reason to shut down or bring extra scrutiny to any FFL let alone one with over 50 stores.

All the people who want to complain about FFL's all the time should just open their own shop and play by their own rules and see how that works. Have fun

 

[Mgderf]

Again with the hate for stores. They are following the law just as you quoted it. The thing you have to remember is that as a corporation they have a lot to lose if a gun leaves without a proceed.

If it gets released according to your interpretation and then the FFL gets contacted that it's a DENY then what? Oh yeah that's right, you have to contact a now armed customer and attempt to get the firearm back. You also get to contact the local LEO and say can you get this gun back? I refuse to put anybody in that situation for your convenience.

I refused 3 people the other day myself. Two for bad ID (That's never been refused at LGS) and the other I deemed a straw purchase attempt. We don't need or want the ATF to have any reason to shut down or bring extra scrutiny to any FFL let alone one with over 50 stores.

All the people who want to complain about FFL's all the time should just open their own shop and play by their own rules and see how that works. Have fun

Rural king goes far beyond lawful requirements.

 

[flatlander]

If we don't get a PROCEED from NICS the gun is not released. After it's in the DELAY status for 29 days it is no longer a valid form and it must be redone. Don't know about RK but that is our policy.

 

[gassprint1]

Again with the hate for stores. They are following the law just as you quoted it. The thing you have to remember is that as a corporation they have a lot to lose if a gun leaves without a proceed.

If it gets released according to your interpretation and then the FFL gets contacted that it's a DENY then what? Oh yeah that's right, you have to contact a now armed customer and attempt to get the firearm back. You also get to contact the local LEO and say can you get this gun back? I refuse to put anybody in that situation for your convenience.

I refused 3 people the other day myself. Two for bad ID (That's never been refused at LGS) and the other I deemed a straw purchase attempt. We don't need or want the ATF to have any reason to shut down or bring extra scrutiny to any FFL let alone one with over 50 stores.

All the people who want to complain about FFL's all the time should just open their own shop and play by their own rules and see how that works. Have fun

How would a firearm get RELEASED if a nics check came back as denied?? It wouldn't!! You might be an ffl, but your small time and not a big corp like what's being talked about.

 

[DadSmith]

I believe new rule was passed that automatically delays anyone under 21

Yep our own Todd Young crossed the isle yet again to vote like a Democrat.

 

[flatlander]

How would a firearm get RELEASED if a nics check came back as denied?? It wouldn't!! You might be an ffl, but your small time and not a big corp like what's being talked about.

I work for the largest FFL in the country. A firearm, according to the law, if over 21 states after 3 business days the firearm MAY be released. IF a DENY comes back after it gets released it must be recovered. You obviously have no idea as to how this works for the corporation I work for. Careful about judging so quickly.

 

[Mgderf]

I work for the largest FFL in the country. A firearm, according to the law, if over 21 states after 3 business days the firearm MAY be released. IF a DENY comes back after it gets released it must be recovered. You obviously have no idea as to how this works for the corporation I work for. Careful about judging so quickly.

What can an FFL do, besides ask for it back after a denial?
I'm surprised they even have you try.
I would think if denied, it would be a police issue.
Denied person in possession of a firearm.

 

[gassprint1]

I work for the largest FFL in the country. A firearm, according to the law, if over 21 states after 3 business days the firearm MAY be released. IF a DENY comes back after it gets released it must be recovered. You obviously have no idea as to how this works for the corporation I work for. Careful about judging so quickly.

That makes no sense. You fill the paperwork out at the dealer, they run it thru the nics system..it comes back approved...customer takes firearm home. Where is this 3 day waiting period coming from now? And if approved, how would it come back denied after 3 days? I don't understand that. My daughter bought a handgun and a shotgun, both approved and she took home same day.

 

[gassprint1]

For anyone in this discussion
This thread isn't ment to be an argument but rather knowledgeable education..for atleast me. Some of us do interpret things differently and somethings only make better sense explained by those that deal with certain things daily. This is why i ask questions or give my 2cents to better understand what i call the unknown.

 

[Cameramonkey]

That makes no sense. You fill the paperwork out at the dealer, they run it thru the nics system..it comes back approved...customer takes firearm home. Where is this 3 day waiting period coming from now? And if approved, how would it come back denied after 3 days? I don't understand that. My daughter bought a handgun and a shotgun, both approved and she took home same day.

The 3 days rule is a check/balance to prevent NICS from just not approving anyone via always answering "delay", and therefore preventing transfers via inaction. If they delay, they cant prevent a sale just by failing to update the case for no reason. This rule forces them to actually deny for cause.

To legally transfer a firearm in a retail sale, you need either a proceed, or no deny within 3 days. If NICS cant figure it out in 3 days, they cant stop the transaction. At least that is the theory.

@flatlander Honest questions, I'm truly curious about this. (I'm a data geek)
How many denies you guys see following a delay?
Any denies past the 3 day mark?
Also how many proceeds do you guys get during the 3 day window?
How many proceeds AFTER the 3 day window? Ive heard that they assume you guys will release after 3 days, so if they dont find anything to deny, they typically just let it go and dont bother to take the time to call you with proceeds.

 

[gassprint1]

The 3 days rule is a check/balance to prevent NICS from just not approving anyone via always answering "delay", and therefore preventing transfers via inaction. If they delay, they cant prevent a sale just by failing to update the case for no reason. This rule forces them to actually deny for cause.

To legally transfer a firearm in a retail sale, you need either a proceed, or no deny within 3 days. If NICS cant figure it out in 3 days, they cant stop the transaction. At least that is the theory.

@flatlander Honest questions, I'm truly curious about this. (I'm a data geek)
How many denies you guys see following a delay?
Any denies past the 3 day mark?
Also how many proceeds do you guys get during the 3 day window?
How many proceeds AFTER the 3 day window? Ive heard that they assume you guys will release after 3 days, so if they dont find anything to deny, they typically just let it go and dont bother to take the time to call you with proceeds.

Ok, that 3 day thing makes sense when you explained it that way.

 

[flatlander]

1)` We have had several denies following delays. Rare but it happens. I don't want to be put in that position knowing there is a firearm out there that shouldn't be.

2) I'm going to say about 50% of the delays come back as proceeds within 3 days.

3) Probably another 30% come back after the 3 days as proceeds.

We call the person within 24 hours if they get a proceed. We generally don't leave mssg as a safety in case it could be a wrong number. I have seen numerous delays go long enough that they expire as well as people getting delayed numerous times.

The new law makes it harder for the law abiding to get firearms as usual and does little to keep it out of the hands of criminals. It is their house and their rules.

 

[Cameramonkey]

1)` We have had several denies following delays. Rare but it happens. I don't want to be put in that position knowing there is a firearm out there that shouldn't be.

2) I'm going to say about 50% of the delays come back as proceeds within 3 days.

3) Probably another 30% come back after the 3 days as proceeds.

We call the person within 24 hours if they get a proceed. We generally don't leave mssg as a safety in case it could be a wrong number. I have seen numerous delays go long enough that they expire as well as people getting delayed numerous times.

The new law makes it harder for the law abiding to get firearms as usual and does little to keep it out of the hands of criminals. It is their house and their rules.

Thank you, sir. I appreciate the insight.

 

[spankys56]

Citation please? First I've heard of it.

question 21 b and c . Intend is a vary vague word.