AK 47, ak74, or .223/5.56 AK

[Andrew Cornett]

Hello everyone, I am looking for expert opinions or input here. I am thinking about buying an AK sometime in the future and when I finally decide to crack the old wallet open I'd like to make a wise choice on what I am purchasing. I am hoping that someone who has shot all of the variants caliber wise not necessarily brand but the 7.62x39, 5.45x39, and 5.56 variants. I am little more interested in knowing about the 5.45x39 or the 5.56 variants as I know the least about them. To get to the point I am looking for pros and cons on those two and would also like to know about magazine reliability/availability of the 5.56 and if you would, do a verses 7.62x39 variant. As a side question does anyone know of any American brand 5.45x39 ammo other than Hornady? I like the concept of 7.62x39 the most currently but am looking to being convinced in buying one of the other two for accuracy, availability, and weight purposes and also cost efficiency if there are brass 5.45x39's out there.

 

[JettaKnight]

You should be able to easily Polish 5.56 mags that are reliable. If you're looking for brass, accuracy and a lot of ammo choices, it seems to me you want 5.56. And in 5.56 there are two good choices, the VEPR or the Radom Beryl, which is imported as the IO Archer.

 

[indykid]

First, the nice thing about the AK/AKM is that the magazine is common. No matter which country made the mag, it will work in any 7.62x39 AK/AKM.

That cannot be said about the .223 variants. The SAR-3 was designed to use the magazine from the German STG940 system, called the Wieger system, hence a Wieger mag, for the town Wiesa Germany where they are made. The Norinco 84S is a great rifle, but although some have found other mags that work in it, the Norinco mags are the way to go. The other factory .223 was from Poly Technologies, their AKS-223 which also had a one of a kind mag. Unfortunately the Wiegers for the SAR-3 got expensive when the Saiga .223 came out as they bought up the supply (at that time) of the Wiegers and modified them for the Saiga. The Norinco 84S mag is expensive because of federal bans on our second amendment rights, banning importation. Even worse was/is the Poly Tech as not many were imported, and it is not unusual to see a Poly Tech .223 mag going for $100 each.

The good side of the .223/5.56x45 AKMs is that they are among the most accurate of all AK variants.

Next is the AK-74 style using 5.45x39. For a long time the German mags were a dime a dozen, but their prices have gone up with the current scare. The nice thing is that even though the 5.45x39 mags are different, they will all fit in any AK-74 variant.

With the bans on importation of rifles that don't meet the sporting purpose clause of the new second amendment, and the ban on importation of receives or barrels, there are a lot of "kit build" rifle that use various mags like the Polish .223, but again the .223 is hit and miss. I will say that I have heard many people being able to modify a mag to work in a .223 that it wasn't designed for, but there are also some that won't even fit in the mag well, so checking before buying is a great idea.

Good luck. I will add that my SAR-3 is one of my favorite shooters, and a very accurate rifle. My 84S-1 (underfolder version) is not only another favorite, but the most accurate AK variant I have ever shot, being able to pick off shotgun hulls at 50 yards standing using iron sights!

 

[other dave]

First, the nice thing about the AK/AKM is that the magazine is common. No matter which country made the mag, it will work in any 7.62x39 AK/AKM.

That cannot be said about the .223 variants. The SAR-3 was designed to use the magazine from the German STG940 system, called the Wieger system, hence a Wieger mag, for the town Wiesa Germany where they are made. The Norinco 84S is a great rifle, but although some have found other mags that work in it, the Norinco mags are the way to go. The other factory .223 was from Poly Technologies, their AKS-223 which also had a one of a kind mag. Unfortunately the Wiegers for the SAR-3 got expensive when the Saiga .223 came out as they bought up the supply (at that time) of the Wiegers and modified them for the Saiga. The Norinco 84S mag is expensive because of federal bans on our second amendment rights, banning importation. Even worse was/is the Poly Tech as not many were imported, and it is not unusual to see a Poly Tech .223 mag going for $100 each.

The good side of the .223/5.56x45 AKMs is that they are among the most accurate of all AK variants.

Next is the AK-74 style using 5.45x39. For a long time the German mags were a dime a dozen, but their prices have gone up with the current scare. The nice thing is that even though the 5.45x39 mags are different, they will all fit in any AK-74 variant.

With the bans on importation of rifles that don't meet the sporting purpose clause of the new second amendment, and the ban on importation of receives or barrels, there are a lot of "kit build" rifle that use various mags like the Polish .223, but again the .223 is hit and miss. I will say that I have heard many people being able to modify a mag to work in a .223 that it wasn't designed for, but there are also some that won't even fit in the mag well, so checking before buying is a great idea.

Good luck. I will add that my SAR-3 is one of my favorite shooters, and a very accurate rifle. My 84S-1 (underfolder version) is not only another favorite, but the most accurate AK variant I have ever shot, being able to pick off shotgun hulls at 50 yards standing using iron sights!

indykid you hiy the nail right on the head.

 

[vitamink]

Agreed. My only interest in a 223 AK involved converting a 223 saiga and using a MSA mag adapter to run pmags. Other than that I see no need for one except maybe the oddball factor.

 

[SpaldingPM]

My whole reason for owning an AK is to have something that's not 5.56.
5.56 is a excellent rd in pretty much anything, but I'm just a traditional 7.62 and 5.45 fan

 

[Tombs]

One nice thing about the AKs in 5.56, when magazines are hard to find due to a scare, the AK 5.56 mags are everywhere collecting dust for very little $$$.

If it's an arsenal SGL series, you can use the MSA adapter as well to run most AR15 magazines. I don't see a benefit to the 5.45 in recent years over the 5.56, if we were having this discussion 5-10 years ago, then yea the 5.45 was a great option.

Just some points to mull over.

 

[Horse]

You must also factor in the reliability of most 5.56 rifles.
if you want small fast and accurate in an AK get 5.45. Skip 5.56.

Harder to find and use magazines.
more expensive magazines.
Reduced reliability.

For my "AK" set all the rifles are 5.45 - and I've never seen any advantage to buying 5.56.
Ive got a 54R Vepr for distance and a 7.62 VZ.58 because they don't make them in 5.45

 

[tradertator]

Lots of great options out there. When in doubt, buy an Arsenal and try to stay away from Century built. If you end up with a Century, check for sight cant, gas block cant, mag wobble, and what kind of barrel is on it. Especially if it's a 5.45 gun, because Century built an awful lot of them with non chrome lined .223 barrels rather than .222. The bullet starts tumbling through the air as soon as it leaves the end of the barrel. Ideally, buy a rifle that has the original chrome lined cold hammer forged barrel regardless of where it came from. If its a parts kit build, Spud Nodak receivers are probably the best. Milled receivers are a nice novelty IMO, but have no effect on function or reliability. If you want a left side folding stock, pony up the cash when you buy the rifle because they are expensive and labor intensive to retrofit.
-5.56X45 AK's are fun, but can suffer reliability issues mostly due to the magazines. ((10)) mags help remedy that, but they are expensive. Right now is a great time to get one though, because KVAR is running a wicked sale on both the SLR106 and mags. AK-47, AK-74, Rifles &...
-5.45X39 is probably my favorite, but right now is not the ideal time to get into one. The mags and ammo were dirt cheap up until recently. If you go this route, I'd recommend an Arsenal SGL31 or SLR105. Waffen Werks are pretty popular, but I much prefer an original barreled build and not a kit gun with an American made barrel.
-7.62X39 is definitely the most popular in the states. The best thing about them is the magazines are cheap and available anywhere. Preban Chinese stuff (Polytech, Norinco 86, Clayco, GSAD, etc...) are probably the nicest you'll find, but demand a premium. An Arsenal SGL31 or SLR107 (better IMO) are tough to beat for the price though. Some of the early Romanian stuff is surprisingly nice like the WUM and SAR and can be pretty reasonably priced. Pistols are interesting because they are not subject to the 922R BS, so they are unmolested when they come into the country with original receivers and barrels.

 

[sbcman]

The only experience I have with a 223 AK is my Saiga chambered in it. I picked it up a few years uncoverted. It came with the factory 10 rounder and 2 Promags. The rifle gives me 1 MOA with any ammo, even Tula. I've ran it for fun and for multigun competition and it's never had a failure of any kind. I eventually picked up another mag and a 100 drum for it.

The thing about a 5.56 AK is that it offers you the world's most reliable rifle platform in the world's most popular centerfire rifle caliber. A good combination.

As mentioned above, the drawback is the mags. In a Saiga, you can do a relatively easy bullet guide addition so the rifle can recieve other 223 mags, or you can get proprietary mags just for the Saiga 223. I've kept mine as is and went proprietary as I've seen no reason to do otherwise. Mag issues and availability are hands down won in the x39 platform.

 

[Clay]

IMO, if I were buying a 5.56 AK (which I have) I would stick with Bulgarian made if you can. Bulgaria is a member of Nato, and 5.56 is a Nato caliber, so they actually produce, and field, 5.56 AK variants. Magazine availability is probably the best of all the 5.56 AK varieties as well. My SLR-106UR has been an excellent performer, with no issues to speak of, regardless of barrel length.

 

[Gamez235]

I've been toying with the idea of a 5.56 SLR-106CR type SBR or a few days. I wonder how Arsenal will treat us with mags in the long term as they are discontinuing the 106 line.

 

[Clay]

"discontinuing" the 106 sure........ they will just come out with a new "version" ala discontinued SGL-31, introducing the "new" SGL-32.

 

[snorko]

Agreed. My only interest in a 223 AK involved converting a 223 saiga and using a MSA mag adapter to run pmags. Other than that I see no need for one except maybe the oddball factor.

Or go even odder and get a Czechpoint Vz58 and their magwell adaptor. For some reason I don't like the idea of 5.56 and 7.62 in the same platform; maybe I think it will confuse me. Czechpoint has their Vz58 5.56 pistol available and SBRing it is a matter of popping out the sling swivel and replacing it with a fording stock. Very very tempting.

 

[Clay]

Another option that Im very tempted to try with a .223 saiga is the Defenitive Arms mag well that allows you to use AR mags, and even incorporates a bolt hold open w/ AR style release, and AR style mag release. Its permanent, but very cool, and the conversion cost is very reasonable.

Im just waiting for them to finish up their yugo M85 conversion

 

[snorko]

Another option that Im very tempted to try with a .223 saiga is the Defenitive Arms mag well that allows you to use AR mags, and even incorporates a bolt hold open w/ AR style release, and AR style mag release. Its permanent, but very cool, and the conversion cost is very reasonable.

Im just waiting for them to finish up their yugo M85 conversion

that does sound good, what's reasonable in price? The Czechpoint magwell conversion runs $85 for the kit but works best/only with USGI style aluminum mags, no Pmags, etc.

 

[Clay]

Well, not so reasonable anymore.

It used to be around $300. It appears to be $440 now. Definitive Arms LLC - Services offered by Definitive Arms

 

[tradertator]

Or go even odder and get a Czechpoint Vz58 and their magwell adaptor. For some reason I don't like the idea of 5.56 and 7.62 in the same platform; maybe I think it will confuse me. Czechpoint has their Vz58 5.56 pistol available and SBRing it is a matter of popping out the sling swivel and replacing it with a fording stock. Very very tempting.

Do you watch Strike Back on Cinemax? They have used a ton of those this season.

IMO, if I were buying a 5.56 AK (which I have) I would stick with Bulgarian made if you can. Bulgaria is a member of Nato, and 5.56 is a Nato caliber, so they actually produce, and field, 5.56 AK variants. Magazine availability is probably the best of all the 5.56 AK varieties as well. My SLR-106UR has been an excellent performer, with no issues to speak of, regardless of barrel length.

What barrel length is your 106CR? The reason I ask is I'm sitting on 17 ((21)) 556 mags, and a local gun store has one that I'd really love to build a Krink out of.

 

[Clay]

What barrel length is your 106CR? The reason I ask is I'm sitting on 17 ((21)) 556 mags, and a local gun store has one that I'd really love to build a Krink out of.

Mine is a UR, ie krink version w/ 8" barrel . New it has a 16" barrel with 8" of pencil thin barrel past the FSB/GB, today its 8". Well, 8.5" if you could the 1/2x28 threads that are out past the FSB/GB

 

[vitamink]

When did you buy a UR?!