AK's are "cheap" or "junk" compared to AR's

[M67]

Comes down to justification.

Some can't justify spending over $500 in a handgun, some can't spend $5000 in a shotgun, over $300 in a knife, over $100 on a flashlight, spending more on the optic than the firearm itself, a Dillon press over a Lee, etc.

I knew I'd shoot my AR a lot, and I knew what I was looking for in one. So on my second AR I think before optic I have about $1600 in it. Is it a Noveske or a LMT or a LaRue? Nope, but it's what I was looking for in an AR and besides a few hard primers on Federal ammo and a flipped hammer spring (doh) it's 100% reliable even after almost 1000 rounds and no cleaning (I know, I need to shoot more). I'll shoot it until it fails just to prove to people that ARs are reliable and they can cram that "dirty hot gas" comment up their ars.

When I decided to get an AK, I knew I wanted to get something that'll last and that would work. I looked into the higher end AKs, milled, etc. I found I like milled, but I couldn't justify spending that much on an AK. I'll drop $1200 in an optic, $1000 in a knife, but I have a mental block at this moment in my life to spending $1500 on an AK. For my purposes, my M+M M10 will suit me just fine and it's worked so far. That being said, I took 3 apart and stuck a level on everything before I chose one. The old Century concoction Yugo AB2 I traded into I've only put 60 rounds (yeah, that's a lot I know) it's been fine too.

I'm an AR guy over an AK. I like the feel, the looks, ergos, accuracy, all better than the AK. The AR feels right to me, AKs take a while to get used to. So on my AR I'll drop the money, but even though I own 2 AKs, I'm just not an "AK" guy.

Comes down to justification, I'm sure expensive AKs are worth it, that tends to be the case in expensive things, but to me at this point in life, for my purposes, I don't want to drop that kind of money in one.

 

[2 151 INF]

I love AK's. The AR platform is great, but man an ak rocking and rolling is just awesome!

 

[Bottlefed]

I've had several ar15, ar10s and I hated ak47s then I sold all my ar's for one reason or another and one day decided why not got one cheap, plus ammo is cheap and there's plenty of it out there. I still won't even look at a 223/556 ar platform I just got rid if a 556r sig I will be replacing and I own ak's now. It's strang I used to feel the same way about glocks and 1911s. We all grow up someday until then buy more ar's it makes it easier to get 762.39 for me. Look at the sks for example or the saiga shotgun I remember tripping over them for 200-250$ at the gun shows and now there are fetching a premium. I feel we are brought up with a Notion of what's right and wrong, what beutiful and ugly. My father hates glocks, ak's sks and benelli shotguns but if you look next to his bed theres a glock 19 he loves my sig and feels benelli is a cheap shotgun compared to his perazzi's and model 12's but he understands the purpose if them. My machined reciever ak shoot great at 300 plus I get more practice at .20 a round.

 

[bberg]

It's a moot argument, I have owned both AR's and AK's the design of each originated as the choice battle rifle for two countries and that is where the similarities ended. The AK wasn't even designed by an engineer, yep go look that one up. and he died pretty much a pauper, what he did do was design an incredibly reliable battle rifle. A true soviet army AK is just not the quality of a $1500 dollar anything and costs very little to produce compared to the M-16 or the other high dollar battle rifles. It is however simplistic and reliable letting a good manufacturer build a better platform out of it.
AR's or M16 rather was a higher tech rifle that lived for years until the gremlins were chased out of it. the now AR is more configurable than an AK, different calibers, barrel lengths, accesories, etc.... doesn't make it better or worse just different. Both weapons have places and outperform each other in those places.

end of the day i'll take one of each please.

 

[Cerberus]

My machined reciever ak shoot great at 300 plus I get more practice at .20 a round.

So just where are you getting AK ammo for $200 a case? 7.62x39 has been north of .20 a round for a few years now, for the cheap stuff. Since over 90% of all AK ammo is steel cased, that means you are forever be having to buy additional cases to feed your 300m lead slinger. I bought a case of 900 5.56 last year and 2000 rounds later I'm still shooting it. I'm shooting M193 velocity ammo, with more consistent quality for just under .13 a round.

And I even ran AKs exclusively for 3 years before I decided life was too short to play around with firearms that did not meet my standards.

 

[Miles42]

If TSHTF I would take either one if I could find one.

 

[tradertator]

I don't understand the AR > AK argument. I have and love both. If I were to give one an edge over the other, it would probably be the AK purely for utilitarian reasons. And as far as the price on top tier AK's, the difference between an Arsenal and WASR are like that of an Olympic and Noveske AR. Both will sling a bullet out the end when you pull the trigger, but some do it with much more class and finesse.

That said, milled receivers don't do much for me. If anyone has doubts on how tuff a stamped gun is, they should try de-milling rivets out of a parts kit. After burning up several drill bits and a few hours of my life, I am thoroughly convinced stamped is the way to go. Milled seems more of a novelty to me, with little payoff when you factor in cost and additional weight.

My biggest complaint on this rifle is how the stock appears. The triangular folder doesn't sit flush to the rear of the receiver, rather it sits off the back of it like the bolt on triangular stock kits Arsenal sells. I think I prefer the standard triangular stamped configuration, although folding to the right is a nice touch if you plan on utilizing the side mounted optic rail.

 

[N_K_1984]

That said, milled receivers don't do much for me.

You know I'm with you on the AR & AK love. I'm an avid fan of both AR and AK alike. That being said, I love my milled AK (Arsenal SA93). Compared to a stamped AK, of which I own a few, it just functions that much smoother. I'd totally run the new Arsenal game changer AK! I dig it, just can't afford it right now. Who cares about the high price? You get what you pay for. You know that AK's gonna last for.ev.er, and it's still cheaper the F'n Scar (You couldn't give me one of those turds). I'll take an AK any day of the week. Milled, stamped, it doesn't matter.

AR vs. AK = moot point. Apples to oranges, imo. However, I've never had to replace a single part on any one of my AKs after range trips. I've broken bolts, forward assists, firing pin retaining pins, fried gas rings, and broken hammer pins on my ARs.... Regardless, I still appreciate both platforms. If it tells you anything, though, my go-to, bug out, SHTF, cocked locked & ready to rock, on stand by, whatever you want to call it rifle is not an AR15, and no one will ever convince me otherwise.

 

[N_K_1984]

And just FYI, anyone who has both an AK and an AR and wants to get rid of their junky, POS AK, I will gladly take it off your hands free of charge. I'm just nice like that.

 

[DoggyDaddy]

I own both - an Egyptian Maadi and an AR (Rock River Lower, the rest Colt I think) built by Mrs. Gungho's hubby, and while I like them both, if I had it to do all over again, I think I'd forego the AR. Might even forego the Maadi for a higher end rifle for that matter. I am taking the AR to the range today, but it will be the first time in almost a year. I refuse to pay .55 -.60 a round (I know - need to start reloading for it) for ammo that used to be .35-.40. I know it's a demand thing, but I still just don't understand why ammo that is produced in such high quantities should cost more than much larger calibers (7.62x54R, 8mm, 30-06). At least 7.62x39 seems to be reasonably priced for what it is.

 

[Bottlefed]

.20 a round 762x39 on ingo or trade but I can even buy it at the local Walmart for .25 a round. I agree with the ak doesn't group as well but my rem700 groups better than my ar's ever did. Not tring to argue but most everyone is saying the same thing different tools for different jobs.

 

[__Doc_]

I just wrote about 300 words worth of **** in this textbox then deleted it because MAC pretty much summed up what I wanted to say with less cussing.

 

[Tombs]

Mac, I'm with you...

A standard arsenal rifle is every bit on par with a proper colt 6920. When we get into the lower budget ARs, they become a much lesser rifle than an AK of around the same price point. Difference is, a normal AK is going to run $700-$1000 where as an AR can be had from $500 up.

Until the SAM7, there were 2 grades of AK. New(Arsenal, Saiga) and cruddy parts kit guns. Where as in the AR world there were plenty of things all over the map.

People who cite the AK as a cheap option are generally newer to guns and don't understand that a replica produced by a replica building company(CAI) is not the same thing. Yes, it may function or it may not. It is in no way a fair representation of the platform which is why people need to stop using WASRs as some sort of reference standard for the AK when that's about as far fetched as comparing a ferrari to a chinese produced car.

Good job citing the HK91 as a stamped rifle comparison. In all my experiences, the HK90 series guns make a decent AK seem like a cadillac. Then again, plenty of sub standard AR15s do that as well.

And for that matter, my Vepr 7.62x54r is one of the nicest made, nicest finished semi-automatic rifles I've encountered. Quite literally flawless with attention to detail in everything, even the wood selection. I paid $740 for it and would still consider it worth the money around a $1200 price point.

I wonder how many of these people realize the mig29 still outperforms our latest greatest waste of $150mil a pop F35.

 

[warriorbob]

I think the reason why some wont to that much on an ak is because of the presumption that a $400 dollar wasr (old prices I know) will function just the same as a $1500 arsenal because of the aks rep. Where as the a $700 dollar delton sport ar may not be nearly as reliable or accurate as a $1500 larue ar.

 

[N_K_1984]

I think some of it boils down to western pride; unfamiliarity, fear, and therefore dislike of that which is foreign i.e. the AK pattern rifle. For instance, there are many gunsmiths I have met who won't even touch an AK based in their unfamiliarity. I think we as American gun owners love our AR15's. It's "America's gun." There is pride in ownership. So naturally, the opposite of the AR has to be cheap junk. I think because we have seen the AR pitted against the AK in so many wars, it has become the enemy. Me personally, I see it as a highly effective tool. A machine, if you will. I don't care that its foreign. It works and it works damn well. It's rugged, dependable, reliable, and effective. Putting aside that the AK is "the enemy's gun," plain and simple, as a battle rifle, it works. For all the anti AK, AR15 fan boys, for every AK you don't buy, that's just one more for me.

I leave you with what your mom used to always say, "If you don't have anything nice to say, don't say anything at all."

 

[kawtech87]

I have come to find that in a lot of things, guns included, you get what you pay for. I have thousands of dollars worth of tools in my tool box. The tools in that tool box are Snap-on and Matco branded tools. Why? Because I have broken multiple Craftsman ratchets, sockets, wrenches, screwdrivers you name it I've broke it. Yeah they get replaced for free but I always break them again. I have never broken a Snap-on ratchet or even had it slip. I have blown up Craftsman Impact sockets with my impact. I haven't even cracked my Matco sockets, and they aren't even impact rated. Quality in craftsmanship is worth the extra to some. For most people a Craftsman ratchet will last a lifetime. Just like a WASR will do fine for most casual shooters. But don't expect it to shoot like a Mil-Spec AR, let alone a high end AR. I bought an Arsenal SLR because I wanted the best rifle I could buy in an AK platform. At the time that was it. Will I ever use it as hard as it can run? No honestly I won't but I know that if I ever need it, it will be there and run like an AK should. Do I expect to pick off targets at 300 yards with an AK? No. But that was never its intended use. Do I expect it to run and keep running no matter the conditions it being used in? Yes and that was what an AK was meant to do. A WASR may do that for a while but I know it will not hold up to it for nearly as long as a quality AK will. That is what you are paying for in a high end AK. The guarantee that it will work when you need it to no matter what. Just like any high end tool.

 

[Cerberus]

People who cite the AK as a cheap option are generally newer to guns and don't understand that a replica produced by a replica building company(CAI) is not the same thing. Yes, it may function or it may not. It is in no way a fair representation of the platform which is why people need to stop using WASRs as some sort of reference standard for the AK when that's about as far fetched as comparing a ferrari to a chinese produced car.

This is so hiliarious. A WASR is pretty much on par with most real AKs produced. In fact the most incountered AKs in the world are usually Romanian. I bet 70% of the AKs we found in Iraq were Romanian. Your average WASR encountered is usually made from demilled PM md 63 or 65 parts usually reassembled by Cugir. I've not yet encountered a WASR that failed to run like it should, or held it's own against just about every other brand of AK with their performance on target. Besides, if I ever take another trip into combloc land I will choose the much far better Vz 58.

 

[Tombs]

This is so hiliarious. A WASR is pretty much on par with most real AKs produced. In fact the most incountered AKs in the world are usually Romanian. I bet 70% of the AKs we found in Iraq were Romanian. Your average WASR encountered is usually made from demilled PM md 63 or 65 parts usually reassembled by Cugir. I've not yet encountered a WASR that failed to run like it should, or held it's own against just about every other brand of AK with their performance on target. Besides, if I ever take another trip into combloc land I will choose the much far better Vz 58.

You'd have a point if they were romanian made guns.

The wasr is not a romanian gun. It's a collection of SOME used/worn out romanian made parts, mixed with some questionably made components and assembled by the lowest common denominator. Go ask CAI about who their intended market is, they'll tell you, it's for people who want to own a replica of the real thing. If it's just a range plinker, I'm sure it'll serve the purpose. But in no way should it be where people get their idea of what an AK is about.

This is no different from someone trying to say a walmart branded red dot is comparable to an aimpoint.

I've had my "adventures" with CAI "quality control."

With everything Izhmash made, I can take an optic like the PKAS and if it's zeroed on my AK, I can place it on any other AK and it will be obscenely close to dead on. Why is this? Because the side rail is trued to the barrel from the factory, even most AR15s don't have this level of standardization and quality control. This is how a real AK is made, it's repeatable and has quality control measures. Go try this with a WASR, I'll be surprised if you can even get the optic to zero on one before running out of adjustment. I tried putting a POSP on a CAI PSL one time... By the time the optic was zeroed only 1/4 of the reticle was still visible in the optic. I ended up having to slot and shim the POSP's mounting base to get the reticle to zero remotely close to the center of the sight picture. Not to mention the level of time and effort it took to get that PSL to run. You see, differences like this separate the real deal from a replica and are why most people have this image of the AK being unrefined/crude.

 

[Cerberus]

You'd have a point if they were romanian made guns.
.

Uhhhhhhh. WASR10 and the 10/63 are Romanian made. Made right at the State run Cugir facility. The only thing CAI does to them is open up the mag wells to take standard mags. Where some of those thrown together plastic things with various alphanumeric designations are made who knows. Over the 3 decades that I have been a shooter I have found that over 90 percent of firearms problems are due to operator headspace and timing.

Had a CAI PSL and the thing ran like a top, still is running like a top for a firends wife and the POSP 8x scope zeroed in 3 rounds. Had a CAI AES10b and it never had a single FTF, not one ever in over 5k rounds before I tired of it and sold it. It was also the only AK type rifle that would hold a decent group beyond 300. Guess some of just know how to shop for a gun, to date I've not purchased a lemon.

Go to a reputable AK specific forum and you'll find out that the WASR is holding it's own.

 

[MilitaryArms]

I have a WASR 10 that shoots surprisingly well, but not as well as the SAM7SF. The WASR's are good guns, and they clean up nice.